Day Rate Blues... ?

Hey guys

I hate when an employer asks, what is your day rate? That to me is more difficult than cutting a job believe it or not - I don't want to overshoot myself, yet I don't want to undercut myself either - So I needz some advice from you working professionals - I currently cut high end weddings and other freelance work, my hourly rate is around $35-60 an hour -

How much would a proper day rate be for a background concert footage editor ? And by background concert footage, I mean the material that you see on those big screens at the show - $650 a day? $450 a day?

I don't know..

thanks

Mike Papas

For me it depends on the client. I've got some I know I can charge $100.00 per hour and some that I know I can charge $450.00 per day (using my gear of course).

I know I can get a minimum day rate of $350.00 working on somebody else's gear so that would be my bare minimum for pretty much anybody. I've got mom and pop clients and I've got corporate clients so it all depends on who I'm working for.

BB

Cool, yea it really all depends - How do you go about feeling out the client though? Ovbiously if you're working out of some guys basement your price would be a little lower as compared to an actual functioning post house - I never know what to say in these things, I would much rather the employer just flat out tell me , this is our scale, where do you see yourself in that scale,

Price your competition in the market - go "mystery" shopping at big production houses....ask what their per hour rate is with editor and room (you'd be surpised..here in DC...small independent guys like me have driven their prices way down)

Don't undersell yourself if you are doing a lot of the producing. Locally in DC - Day rates for editors and gear range from 75 to 400 an hour....the average being 150 to 250 for AVIDand fully equiped FCP suits. Knowing your competitive prices can get you in a few dollars less and win the bid.

You are the last line of defense to make the difference between a great professional product that - with corporate clients - can help them generate thousands, perhaps millions of dollars. Remind the client they are making an investment in their company's future with great return on investment - and how they couldn't have chosen a better pair of experienced hands to help them. Cheers - Andy

My rates go anywhere from $125 an hour to $2,100 a day (10 hours) depending on the client and project. Much of this is driven by the market. Believe it or not some of the smaller markets pay better than New York or LA.

Don't undersell yourself. We've mentioned it before...

Factor in cost of gear and useful life
Life insurance, health insurance, 401
Social Security payments

You get the idea.

Or you could simply outsource the jobs to a third world country and mark up the $5 an hour.

I have a pretty descent real and I find it difficult to find work at all. What the hell am I doing wrong?

Heres a link:

[www.ruffbreedentertainment.com]

Soup to nuts. Offer Soup to nuts.

Haha, Chet, what is Soup to nuts - thanks for the advice Andy and Chet - would it be a bad idea to talk to the potential employer about what others make or is that just shooting myself in the foot?

a lot of it comes down to how good you are at what you do, and how much of that you can actually back up with product.

Soup to nuts is just that -- you do it all -- Produce, write, edit, direct shoot....

There are very few "I just do this" jobs any more. It's what took me from being a network correspondent for ABC News to running my own production company and doing pieces and docs for Discovery, PBS and a growing list of far better paying corporate clients.

You need to a become quadruple threat who never says no when a client says "can you do this?-

"Can you make an orange come out of my client's ear and blossom into a tree..then morph the entire thing into a music video?"

The answer is always "why of course....let me budget that and get back to you."

Then get on the horn to your graphics experts and DP's (or in your downtime - teach yourself After Effects and other compositing programs and become a good shooter on your own)

Of course no one can really "do it all" - but you CAN find experts and partners to work with and make yourself the general contractor -- you mark everyone up a little - make a little profit on each piece of the production. When you are working for "the man" (editing in a production house) The rate they pay you is just a fraction of the rate they charge the client. Become "the man" and undercut the big production houses!

It takes a while - heck it took me four years to fully make the transition from full time "I just do the writing and on camera work" to "Hi we'll direct, shoot, write, edit, design the dvd, create the streams for the web" guy. I still keep my foot in network TV and Radio - but the majority of my income...and profit now grows out of my own production company.

You develop a reputation - ask clients to refer new clients - get testimonials when you make them shine and put the good word online or in your brochures - you build a web site to showcase your work - you advertise on Google....you give free talks on how to make your company shine on video for trade associations...and pass out your cards. People hire people they are comfortable with or who impress them with their knowlege and professionalism.

You become an ubersalesman - and you ALWAYS work profit into your price - on every part of the project.

But don't sell yourself as "just an editor" Instead become an Editor/Producer - Shooter/Editor Editor/director Writer/editor - the more you can do - the more you can distinguish yourself from the competition and thrive.

Good luck - Andy

I agree with andy to a point. You need to wear a few hats to succeed further than someone that just "edits"...BUT... I think that "doing it all" is not the way to go either. You spread yourself too thin, one or all the different departments suffer and the end piece suffers. The end product never lies. There are not many people that are REALLY GOOD at writing / directing / shooting / editing / designing / compositing / visual FX / sound mixing / sound design / web streaming / etc. If you are selling yourself as a "SOUP TO NUTS" guy, you better be able to deliver on every aspect of production or you will probably lose that client forever and word gets around quick in this biz. It's smaller than you think.

The smart ones surround themselves (in a collaborative environment) with artists that are good in multiple areas and they take care of each other and the project like it was their child. I used to shoot...you can have it. I took my stand in 1997 and became Post Production only - collaborating with shooters / Producers / Directors that KNOW that they can't handle the Design / Compositing / etc. and are smart enough to farm it out while they work on something else. That's where I come in - Art Direction / Motion Design / Edit / Sound Design.

Martin,

Since you asked...here's my 2¢ on that. Your demo needs to be re-cut / re-worked.

1. You may want to add MTV-style lower left titles / credits to all those groups because I don't know any of 'em and if I'm lookin' at your reel to hire you, I don't know who you've worked with. Don't expect the folks who's hiring to know anything about anything. It needs to be 2 to 3 minutes long.

2. I would pick a sexier track of music.

3. The beach clips with the girls bending over for the camera needs to go away (unless you are looking for that specific type of work). I would choose something else to replace that. Looks very cheesy & homemade - does not belong with the obviously higher production value of the rap stuff.

4. Create (slick composite) an open / close that has your contact info - not just your name in giant letters over fire. I added up the time you used to put your name over fire on the top & tail...that's 25 seconds out of a minute (almost ONE QUARTER of your demo). That's a LOT of wasted space that could be used for more content. Honestly...if I received your reel for hire and I saw that, I would be thinking this person is more into seeing their name in lights than the work and probably would not play well in a "team" environment.

My 2¢

- Joey



Post Edited (04-05-06 20:55)

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

EXCELLENT point Andy! and i think many people would be well advised to take heed... but only IF they have the mental goods to deliver that quadruple threat

Martin Sterling.

Did you edit all those music clips?
If you did, you must have some talent in finding work....

I must say that although your reel has got some very strong shots in it,
I would definately recommend a different more uplifting track.
(Just my 2 cents and I may be wrong)

Also, Martin, maybe don't spend a quarter of the reel with your name over flames. Presumably, people looking at your reel know it's yours.

Hi.
Sorry for replying to this topic now but i have one question.
What is the percentage that you must deduce for taxes.
Here in Portugal if get, for example $100 i must ask for more $21 for VAT( 21%) $100+$21= $121. Later i have to pay that to the goverment thouse 21% only if i don't have any expensives on my own. On the other hand 20% for IRS.
So the initial $100, $20 IRS goes directly for the goverment vault.
And of that $100, $13 are for Social Security.
The total if i get $100:
$67 are mine.



Rui Barros
Editor Colorist Trainer
Lisbon, Portugal
RTP Post-Production
Apple Certified Trainer FCP 7
Apple Certified Pro FCP 7

Rui,

I don't know about Portugal or anywhere outside the USA, but I always figure that 30% of whatever I make (freelance) is going to go towards Uncle Sam's new Hummer & Beach house in Palm Beach (A.K.A. "The IRS" or "The Government".

- Joey



When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Hi.

Let's call the Cops, the government is robbing us.



Rui Barros
Editor Colorist Trainer
Lisbon, Portugal
RTP Post-Production
Apple Certified Trainer FCP 7
Apple Certified Pro FCP 7