Quad 2.5 GHz G5 Now, Or Wait For Intel Equivalent?

Hi all.


I need your best friendly advice.


I have just sent in my crossgrade application so that I can get the Universal version of Final Cut Studio. Now, I am looking for a faster, more powerful machine. I need to bring MPEG encoding time and run time for many other processes for which I use my machines to a minimum.

This Friday, from 6:00 p.m. to 12:00 a.m., CompUSA is offering 24, 36, 48, and even 60 months zero percent financing on qualifying purchases. I was thinking hard about a quad G5. However, from past purchases, I know that better stuff is always on the horizon as far as Apple is concerned. I have no idea what Apple's next flagship Mac will be like, but I strongly believe that it will have Intel chips inside it.

Based on what people are experiencing with their Mac Book Pros vs. their older Powerbooks, how do the Intel Macs compare to the Powerbooks? Are they really that much faster across the board?

More importantly, how much faster does FCP run on a Mac Book Pro over a Powerbook?

Does FCP Universal run faster than regular FCP on a Powerbook?


The responses to the above questions will greatly help me decide on whether to buy a guad G5 now, or wait until Apple releases an Intel replacement for it.


Thanks for your wisdom.

-DH

for me, the biggest issue with moving to (waiting for) an intel desktop machine is not FCP itself, as thats only one tool in the toolbox - for me, its all the other apps that i use on a daily basis (illustrator, photoshop, after effects, office, sorenson compression suite, on and on...) how will those be addressed and when will unviversal or intel only versions of those be available?

the early reports ive read of the intel mac performance points to the logic that even a mid range "mactel" tower will stomp a current quad.

other questions involve external gear you have, like what kinds of pci slots will a mactel tower have, will it have fw 400, 800, both or neither?

and WHEN will it be out? and can you wait a year or more for all these questions to be answered?

if you have work waiting right now - i say - GET YOURSELF a QUAD!!! and get busy working! a quad will handilly toast all of the other current macs!

The Quad is the fastest Mac in history. A Quad will last you 3 to 5 years because of the architecture. Don't worry about the intel machines until 2010 when all the bugs are worked out of them & the software is fine tuned by that point.

As to "mactel towers stomping Quads" in the future...that's all PURE speculation & rumors based on the performance of the iMac, MacBookPro & Mac Mini. There are no "mactel towers" & there won't be any until late '07, so all statements comparing Quads to intel towers are irrelevant & shouldn't be used to make a purchase decision IMHO. You need FAST / UPGRADABLE / EXPANDABLE / NOW.

Get a Quad with the Nvidia GeForce 7800 GT video card upgrade & 4 Gigs of RAM or more. You won't be thinking about intels for a few years.

Good luck.

- Joey



Post Edited (04-13-06 11:20)

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

I don't usually get into machine arguments, and I'll probably regret doing so now, but five years is an eternity in the computer business. Five years ago, 2001, I think we'd just bought a G4/733 single processor with SuperDrive. I suspect in five years a G5 Quad will barely to able to run the latest versions of FCS. In five years Apple probably won't be making pro apps that will run on PowerPCs. Probably a few years before five years from now Steve Jobs (or his successor), at a developer conference, will have rolled out a coffin with the last PowerPC in it and will have announced that its software development, OS and applications, will no longer support PowerPC machines. Apple has already announced that there will be no more development of pro apps for PowerPC based code. There will be no more updates to FCP after 5.0.4. The only updates will be to the UB version. And that's before the Mactel towers are even released. There's no upside in going with a Quad at this stage in my view, unless you can amortize it's cost, computer, ancillary hardware and software, within nine months, maybe less.



All the best,

Tom

Seeing the recent test results, I'd say wait. The current MacBook is beating my dual 2.0 G5 in rendering. And that's a first gen laptop!

[www.creativemac.com]

In fact, this test shows the new laptop THREE TIMES FASTER than my huge dual 2.0 at rendering an effect. (It's a German page, but babelfish translated) So much for "Altivec", huh?

[babelfish.altavista.com]


In other words, I'm already looking to sell my ten-month old computer, because after the intel towers come out, this thing's gonna be worth squat. Only question is when do the towers come out, and I'd say by the end of the year.

Hi all.


Thank you all for your candor. The information that you are providing is very useful. I now feel comfortable in whatever decision I will make.


-DH

I know it's pricey, but in order to keep working - doing training, working with the latest versions - IOW - just keeping up.....

I'M GONNA RENT.

At least for the next few months.



Kevin Monahan
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Crystal Ball Fast Forward 4 years to 2010...........Posting on LAFCPUG from Joey..............

"Why is it I cant get my new FCP version 7 to work on my G5 quad? I mean it was the fastest G5 ever made but it just bogs down when I try to load my new software. I thought is was supposed to be upgradable for years to come when I purchased it right before NAB four years ago. Yeah I know Apple had said they were switching to Intel chips by the end of '06 in all their machines, but did anybody really believe that? Besides Apple has been bashing PC's for years saying that their Power PC's are always way faster than any Intel basded machine of the same size so why would they all of a sudden want Intel chips in Macs? Anyway one good thing is I had a few days to kill, so I could write this post, while my Quad was rendering that 4k image I've been working on.
:-(

the only REAL questions are:

1. do you have work waiting right now?
if the answer is yes, then buy a quad and GET BUSY WORKING. as joe says the quad will be a viable production tool for at very least 3 to 5 years.

2. does your workflow require the use of the other apps like the ones i mentioned in my earlier response?
if the answer is yes, then buy a quad now, as we have no idea how long it will take for everyone to work the bugs out of stuff. and again, as joey said, it will be give or takem a year before we see a high power intel tower...

another thiing to think about is that id you NEED a quad now, you can easilly make enough money in a year to buy whatever mactel box comes availiable in the next year - if you cant generate that kind of money - you didnt NEED the quad to begin with.

also, you can get your quad now, but the UB version of fcp for $49 (be sure to copy your discs before sending them in so youll be covered on both machines) - then if you decide to get whatver intel mac comes available, you'll at least be ready to run with fcp regardless of where the other software is.

so, long story longer - GET A QUAD.

God, my last post was wrought with typo's:

another thiing to think about is that IF you NEED a quad now, you can easilly make enough money in a year to buy whatever mactel box comes availiable in the next year - if you cant generate that kind of money - you didnt NEED the quad to begin with.

also, you can get your quad now, BUY the UB version of fcp for $49 (be sure to copy your discs before sending them in so youll be covered on both machines) - then if you decide to get whatver intel mac comes available, you'll at least be ready to run with fcp regardless of where the other software is.

Hi all.


Once again, thanks for all of your advice.

I did not mean to start a firestorm. It is refreshing though to see how passionate people are about their craft.

The only pro apps that I use are encompassed by the FCP Studio suite. I have not yet begun using Illustrator, After Effects, Photoshop, etc.

I wanted my renders to be much, much quicker, and I wanted other things for which I use my machine to be quicker as well. I do not have any jobs right now that are in progress. However, I am making over my rig, so I thought about a new machine.

I guess I will wait to see what Apple rolls out in their new flagship Mac.


Thanks again.


-DH

DH, you never told us what mac you currently have...?

if your current machine is at least a dual processor g5 of some sort, a quad - though quite remarkably faster, isnt exactly going to change the world

and remember, current logic doesnt show a "mactel" tower out during this calendar year. in the pro video business, thats a lot of work and a lot of money.

it really depends on what kind of work you do. if you skew more of a hobbyist, then i say wait, as the performance upgrade is more a WANT than a NEED. if however, you can predict 3 or 4 paying projects during the remainder of '06
you probably would hugely benefit from a quad now.

as a side note. i am still runing an older dual 2.0 (single core) g5. about 4 months ago i upgraded my ram from 2gig to 4gig and added a secondary internal hard drive. that alone made enough of a perfomance jump to keep me reasonably happy for at least the end of the second quarter of the year. and it only cost me around $500

Frank Nolan,

You're very cute. Very witty. I'll see you in 4 years when I'm kickin' out rendered finals on my Quad while you're updating your Virus Protection regularly on your macintel. Get ready for something none of you (almost everybody in the Mac Community, for that matter) have had very little experience with: V-I-R-U-S-E-S. They eat hard drives like termites eat wood. I, personally, am not looking forward to that fight and I'm going to wait until I am forced to go with Intel boxes. I'll take my slow-a$$ Quad to a box full of viruses anyday.

Well...everyone laughed at me when I said that my Dual 1 Ghz Quicksilver would give me 3 to 5 years of productive service (just retired it after 4 1/2 years). What if Apple releases an intel processor upgrade unit for the Quad box? That might be a viable option rather than writing off the Quad right now as obsolete. Why do you think the G5's were outfitted with PCIe? These will probably be the same boxes just with Intel chips in them. We'll see...my Quad may go further than even I imagined.

I bought mine in December because:

1. I needed to "Quad"ruple my rendering power for an upcoming Commercial Motion Design project and my Dual 1G would have melted rendering 1920x1080 / Magic Bullet. It more than covered that.

2. This job I had pending paid for it all in one shot (and a Dell 24" monitor).

The FCP Editors don't need the Quad as much as AE / 3D Designers because FCP rendering is atrocious no matter what machine you use. It's not multi-threaded and does not take advantage of the Quad's architecture. AE uses all 4 cores of the Quad (and the Nucleo plug-in cuts the total AE rendertime in half) - which makes it a perfect machine for me...period

DH,

As you can see, there are differences of opinion...but that's what makes this business great. As long as the work gets done on deadline and it looks GOOD, who cares what gets you there. Better stuff is ALWAYS gonna be on the horizon. It's the nature of Technology. Buying new gear is always a painful experience for me because I know that while my Credit Card number is being entered for approval, Apple is cookin' up the next big thing and I am gonna want that twice as bad as what I just bought. Whatever you do...go with your gut with what's good FOR YOU... but IMHO, waiting is not an option - it's $$$ out the window. If you are looking to finance this at CompUSA, you probably don't have work lined up to pay for it which means you probably don't need it right away.

Good Luck :}

- Joey

PS - Kevin may have the best suggestion: If you absolutely need it now, RENT



Post Edited (04-13-06 22:11)

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

- ahhhh, joey, i see you finally took my advice an gave nucleo a shot. (as i recall you said you didnt need it - ha ha)

was it really that big a help timewise?

i tried it on my dual processor (single core - which the documentation said would also benefit) and it actually slowed down basic renders by 40+%...

Not to throw wood on the fire, but MacIntels are no more prone to viruses than G5's... it's the operating system, not the chip, that viruses attack.

As long as it's OSX, and Mac market share stays small enough that virus writers don't want to waste their time on it, macs will remain (relatively) virus-free, whether running on a Motorola chip or Intel or anything else.

Now if you use BootCamp or Parallels to run Windows XP on your Mac, that's another story...

1) There's no way Apple are going to release an "Intel processor upgrade kit" for Quad G5s, so I wouldn't hold your breath for that.

2) Running Mac OS X on an Intel processor in no way makes it any more susceptible to viruses than a PowerPC system. The OS is what matters...

As others have said, if are confident that you can make enough cash to pay off the Quad G5 in a year then go for it, else rent and wait.

Martin Baker
www.digital-heaven.co.uk

personally i think the intel mac for this community if not ready for primetime. wayne says it all:

"for me, the biggest issue with moving to (waiting for) an intel desktop machine is not FCP itself, as thats only one tool in the toolbox - for me, its all the other apps that i use on a daily basis (illustrator, photoshop, after effects, office, sorenson compression suite, on and on...) how will those be addressed and when will unviversal or intel only versions of those be available?"

seeing that you don't use adobe i guess if you want to wait for the intel towers...but my guess is that you're an exception. in the end i see no point even thinking about mactel until adobe is on board. considering adobe (as of now) is ballparking universal updates somewhere in the 2007 range, i would wait until then as we might even be looking at rev-b towers at that point.

i've seen benchmarks for CS2 photoshop on intel macs an the numbers are not as good as exsisting PPCs. not terrible, but just not as good.

what i have NOT seen is AE benchmarks running under rosetta of complicated compositions with a delivery deadline looming. do we even know how well AE runs under rosetta?

in the end, for an editor like myself, an intel mac doesn't 'buy me' enough. in fact, if the intel towers were here right now, and i needed an upgrade, i would consider trying to grab a PPC quad someone was unloading to get the new shiny mac.

-fp

ahhh wayne,

Your "advice" had nothing to do with it. I live in After Effects land and tested it before it was released. YES...there is a DRAMATIC time difference on a Quad. Not surprised it was slow on your old single core machine - it is optimized for dual core machines:

[www.gridironxfactor.com]

I know about the OS & viruses...it's the folks that WILL install & run Windoze on their macintels. It's inevitable.

- Joey



When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

i wasnt trying to take credit for it... i just seem to recall my asking you a while back if youd heard of it or tried it, and repeatedly (and rather proudly) you responded "i dont need it"...

I don't have any plans to run Windows...and I have little experience with viruses, since I've been a Mac baby all along...

However, aren't most viruses these days internet-borne? If one were to install XP on a Mactel, wouldn't the smartest thing to do is never go on the internet while in Windows, and to NEVER use Windows email applications?

I suppose for downloading updates for PC apps and registering and such, yes, one would need to have internet access through Windows, but as far a general surfing and internet use, I know I wouldn't give up my Mac apps!

I would think doing simply that would decrease the danger significantly.

Then again, it IS Windows....

yeah, deb, but the only problem is that about 80% of the value of using windows in the first place is for internet and other more seamless communication uses with the other 90% of the world...

i was talking with a good buddy a few days ago and the way we see the "mactel" situation evolving is that you'll have one box (a mini or macbook for instance) who's sole purpose is connectivity and communication and a second box that is for production only and NOT connected to ANYTHING internet wise.

thats the way it was back in the early (or as i call them "voodoo" days of NLE's. and it seems maybe the future as well...

"...you'll have one box (a mini or macbook for instance) who's sole purpose is connectivity and communication and a second box that is for production only and NOT connected to ANYTHING internet wise."

This is a first for me...I agree with wayne on the macintel set-up. MacBookPro for Internet & Business, a tower for straight production.

- Joey



When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

see joey, we CAN get along sometimes ; )

...you are a button pushin' monkey, ain'tcha wayne?



When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

hahahahahaha - point taken man.

Hmmm....

I've never had a problem communicating with the rest of the PC world using my Mac...

But I'm not by any means a "Power Internet User"...I don't really do much surfing beyond links that are posted on forums and a very few things sent to me by trusted friends or colleagues.

I suppose those video chats with clients on the other side of the country might be easier if we both were using PCs and AIM or Yahoo Instant Messenger or something....but we always manage to get it to work PC to Mac.

Either way, I don't generally put my production machine on the internet, either, unless I'm uploading to iDisk or downloading updates or from client's FTP sites. My trusty laptop is my workhorse for internet and email and the like. If it goes toes up, I'm not out of business. I would guess the same would go for a Macintel running Boot Camp...

Interesting things to contemplate...

the question is " will Leopard and the next Fcp be optimised to take full advantage of the power of the Quad ???" like ... still be developing and optimising for G5 in the future ?
or
will it only be for the UB versions from now ?



---------------------------------
A Day late & a Dollar-short Productions

No chance. I'm certain all development work on PowerPC equipment has stopped at Apple. Everything from this point on, actually from a point a while ago, is directed at development for Intel-based products only. Nobody's got time to write code for legacy hardware.



All the best,

Tom

Well, and happy holidays :-)