FCP Surround Sound

I am finishing a FCP project (straight to DVD). And for the first time am working with a sound editor as well. He is a student and works with Pro Tools, with limited experience.

Two questions:
Is ProTools LE capable of turning my FCP audio tracks (OMF) into surround sound files that I can reimport into FCP? If not, what is the best option for surround sound out of FCP?

Also, what is the best workflow when working between FCP and ProTools? Should I send OMF files with Quicktime files to match the audio with the video?

Any advice will be appreciated.

This will be rough on many levels.

Nobody ever pays any attention to sound.

Nobody ever does surround.

Very few people are going to have ProTools experience, and even fewer, the Limited Edition version.

OMF tends to be an Avid thing.

Do you know what a Venn Diagram is?

[images.google.com]

That's a logic illustration where the overlapping circles define happiness. Your circles never overlap.

Koz

Here's a bit of happiness for you.

[www.kenstone.net]

Hi-

utahdan wrote:

> Two questions:
> Is ProTools LE capable of turning my FCP audio tracks (OMF)
> into surround sound files that I can reimport into FCP?

Simple answer! Yes and no.
PT LE does not support OMF media natively, however, with the optional DV Toolkit or the stand alone Digitranslator, you can convert the edit files and media into a PT friendly format. I like the DV Toolkit quite a bit, and would recommend it- except for the price. It's expensive. Saves you buying a much more expensive PT|HD rig, though.
You should also know that PT LE does NOT support timecode unless DV Toolkit is installed. You can still do the work, but you have to be careful of sync. Very careful.

And

PT LE does not natively support surround sound. However, if you have a Digidesign 002 or 002R interface, you can fake it pretty well. Backflips to pull it off, but it could be done. If you've only got an Mbox, forget it. No way to monitor multiple channels.


> If not,
> what is the best option for surround sound out of FCP?

FCP will require some sort of audio interface to monitor multichannel audio.
Might be an external firewire box, maybe a USB interface, most of the nice capture cards have multichannel audio capability.
Best option takes more info about what you have and are trying to achieve.

> Also, what is the best workflow when working between FCP and
> ProTools?

"Best" again. Well, it depends.
First question(s): Why does it have to be surround? Got a good reason?

Second question: Do you have a lot of time, or a lot of money?

Third question: How important is the project? Does your income depend on it? or is it a cousin's wedding that you said you'd cut for free?

I guess what I really want to say to you is that, though surround is achievable on a shoestring, it's certainly not free (in terms of required gear, interfaces, software, monitoring systems, bass management, spec' ing a mix room...on and on) and requires 5.1x the time that 2 channel sound takes.
Unless you're into fast and sloppy.

> Should I send OMF files with Quicktime files to match
> the audio with the video?

Yes. That's the cheapest best solution. The cheapest solution would be to render out your FCP audio tracks as .aif's form the beginning of your timeline, and import them into PT a track at a time. You lose all your edits, but maintain sync. Then give your sound editor a DV file of the project to work off of.

Good luck.

tc

<<<Simple answer!>>>

So that would be you [tc] in the intersection of all those Venn Diagram Circles.

Somebody who can speak all five dialects--at once.

This is me writing all that down.

Koz

Koz:

> So that would be you [tc] in the intersection of all those Venn
> Diagram Circles.

Naw- just pointing out that it takes large quantities of cash, gear and patience to do surround passably and get close to those interstices.

> Somebody who can speak all five dialects--at once.

And sadly, nothing to say...

BTW, Peggy Regan says "hi."

tc

All the "high end" sound editing programs include surround panners. Not ProTools LE butProTools TDM, Logic, Nuendo and Digital Performer have true 5.1 and 7.1 surrond capabilities.

You can fake it a little with 6 tracks and the Dolby Encoder buy doing the moving sound around in the back speakers and fancy stuff, is the work of a true surround enabled application.

" Nobody ever pays any attention to sound."

NO? Then what are you doing in the video business. Just try to sell an image without sound! Bad sound can destroy the video experience! Sound is about 40% of the entire process for video.

" Nobody ever does surround"

Another definitely wrong comment. There are plenty of DVD's available with great Dolby 5.1 surround sound work on them. It has been the art of a very few for a very long time, but you can believe with Digital Television coming, you will see and hear more 5.1 tramsmissions in a very few years.

If the applications support a feature, that feature ultimately starts showing up regularly. It just works that way!

<<<And sadly, nothing to say...>>>

But saying it with Great Authority.


<<<Then what are you doing in the video business. >>>

Complaining about the fact that nobody ever pays any attention to the sound.

I am--as we speak--composing a note to the New York Times. The Times Select video piece by Thomas Friedman on the global economy was insanely enjoyable and informative after you got around the bad editing and really odd sound.

Remember, guys, we're doing an illustrated radio show.

<<<BTW, Peggy Regan says "hi.">>>

Most Cool. Hi, back. What is your connection to Ms. Regan?

Koz

utahdan,

As mentioned before, no surround support in LE but you can use the sends to fake it. If you really have to go with surround and PTLE, your sound guy might want to get Digital Performer assuming he is on a Mac. DP was built for compatability with Protools and has the ability to create the surround channels correctly as mentioned above. Plus it can be purchased for around $330 as a crossgrade from PTLE. Your mixer could do his basic sound design and rough mix in PT and then go to DP for final mix and surround.

Also, as mentioned above. Your mixer would need to have the DV toolkit or Digitranslater options to import OMF files and give you timecode in the PT session. You could take the OMF's to someone who had PTLE w/DV Toolkit and get the files converted to a PT session that you could take on a drive to your mixer. You would want to put short sync pops on all tracks before show start and after the final fade out so that you could maintain sync through the mix since there would be no timecode reference.

Koz:


> Most Cool. Hi, back. What is your connection to Ms. Regan?

I'm doing sound design for some spots for the company she's with- we got to talking about our backgrounds and previous jobs (on a previous spot).
You showed up in the conversation, and I name-dropped.

Ain't electronic media, grand?

tc