Audio keyframe fade too short?

Hi,

Is there a setting preference for the clip-end fadeout on audio keyframes? I find that the curved little line at the fadeout drops off too quickly. Can that be adjusted so the audio fades more gradually?

Thanks for any assistance,

Paul

You cna ramp audio keyframes at head or tail at will. Check to see if Snap is on (N key.) That may be affecting your ramp. With Snap off drag laterally to extend your ramp.

- Loren
Today's FCP 5 keytip:
Set a Level keyframe with Command-Option K !

The FCP 5 KeyGuide?: a professional placemat.
Now available at KeyGuide Central:
www.neotrondesign.com

A lot of people complain about the "curvy" audio keyframe ramp, and they want a "straight" one. Keep in mind that the reason it is "curvy" is that it represents a logarithmic effect on the sound, which sounds to anyone's ear as though it is a "straight" line fade. That's the nature of sound and human ears. FCP is being "truthful" about how the audio level is changing, but they would confuse and befuddle fewer people if they represented the keyframing as a straight line, because perceptually it is a straight line.

So what I'm saying is, stop worrying about how the keyframing looks, it really is a smooth, gradual fadeout as far as anyone's ears are concerned, and if you want it to be more gradual then just pull it out further. i.e., use your ears, not your eyes, when you're evaluating an FCP audio keyframe ramp.

Scott

One or the other of these posts will sove it! LOL

- Loren
Today's FCP 5 keytip:
Set a Level keyframe with Command-Option K !

The FCP 5 KeyGuide?: a professional placemat.
Now available at KeyGuide Central:
www.neotrondesign.com

> it really is a smooth, gradual fadeout as far as anyone's ears are concerned

I gotta disagree on that one. Using just two Level keyframes (beginning/end) to execute audio fades results in what I'd describe as a "bottom heavy" fade -- the top of the curve fades very slowly, but it dips dramatically near the end. I've been using FCP for years now; I'm pretty sure I'm not being fooled by the curvature of the line -- it really sounds like that to my ears. Most of the time if I needed to execute a fade that I hear as linear, I have to do a steeper slope at the top of the level, while adding another keyframe to do a gradual slope near the bottom of the levels. Even more frequently, I use the Cross Fade transitions, which seem to give a more linear fade.

You guys have hit the nail on the head here. The reason FCP's fadeouts seem a bit abrupt to me is probably from Premiere experience, where it's linear and a (seemingly) more natural fadeout.

I guess in FCP I'll just do like Derek does with a an extra keyframe to smooth things out.

Many thanks for the help.

Paul

It's funny that you'd say that a linear fade is "seemingly more natural" when exactly the opposite is true.

A natural fade would be a human being's hand on a fader who slowly pulls it down. But humans don't pull fades at exactly the same velocity through the course of the fade. A computer has a hard time trying to simulate this. In fact, the exact linear fade of a computer has a very mechanical feel to it. Not at all natural. However, if that's how you've worked for so long with other programs, I'm sure that's why FCPs fade feels weird to you.

Andy

> A natural fade would be a human being's hand on a fader who slowly pulls it
> down. But humans don't pull fades at exactly the same velocity through the
> course of the fade. A computer has a hard time trying to simulate this.

I think Andy's making a good point...and my problem isn't that FCP's fade isn't linear; it's that it has the opposite curvature of the way I would operate analog mixing sliders. When I record music with my Korg D1200mkII, when I'm fading down, I would always pull the slider down much slower when I get to near the bottom of the levels to prevent the sound from "cutting out". And when I push the sliders up to increase volume, I'd slow down both at the bottom and at the top -- so that the fade is executed smoothly at the beginning, and that I don't overshoot when I'm close to the maximum level I want. FCP's keyframe fades are sudden near the bottom of the levels, and that's the problem -- you often get a perceived "cut out" rather than a slow dying off.

ok, first off, excuse this comment if im just completely wronghere but aren't the audio keyframes highly curved like that do to the fact that it's basicly an exponential curve, in the same amount of spacet aht that audio drops from oto -4 db it will go from -4 to -12 than -12 to like -24 than to like -60

which to me is a straight line, but it has to be curved to represent all the large numbers it passes



Amateur Teacher

The physical controls that control voltage (called "potentiometers", whether rotary or sliders) are made with a "taper", either linear or logarithmic, depending on the application. For audio purposes, they have a logarithmic (aka exponential) taper, to more closely emulate the response of the human ear, which is what we're all adjusting for. With a linear taper, put the dial at "1" (where 10 is full scale) and you're at 10% of the full scale voltage, at "5" you're at 50%, "9" at 90%, etc. For some things that's just right, but not audio. A logarithmic taper is designed to "seem" linear to the ear; "1" is 10% full loudness, "5" is 50% full loudness, etc. This is perceptual loudness. To say you're adjusting an audio slider "linearly" does not dispute the fact that the underlying effect is logarithmic.

Having said that, I'll concede a couple of points.

1. The FCP audio keyframes do tend to drop the audio down rather suddenly at the end, not a very gradual fadeout but a little abrupt. I think this is more a problem of implementation than of concept.

2. Apple would do everyone a favor by making audio keyframes "look" linear, with a straight line like video keyframes, since perception is what we're trying to control, not arcane physics.

Scott