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best mov.
Posted by Hollywood
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Re: best mov. May 24, 2006 07:05PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 5,764 |
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Re: best mov. May 24, 2006 10:27PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,214 |
First is the FCP Movie (QuickTime Export, not QuickTime Conversion). That one's a sideways export from the timeline. It's perfect, but nobody but you and people with your version of Final Cut can open it.
I believe the all time champ is Amination with essentially no compression. I think most QuickTimes can open that, but it's not as universal as:
Photo JPEG. With the quality slider all the way up, the pictures are excellent and they will open up on all three platforms; PC (with QuickTime), Linux ( with the QuickTime Modules), and Mac-Quickitime, virtually all versions. 3:1 compression is undetectable.
We have had a number of problems with Motion JPEG. I know people who like it, but we don't.
Koz
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 01:19AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 823 |
<<It's perfect, but nobody but you and people with your version of Final Cut can open it. >>
Koz, are you sure about that? I have FCP on one machine, and iDVD on another, and my non-FCP machine can view my Final Cut Pro Movies (ver 3) just fine. That should be the ancient equivalent of a Quick Time Export, no? What they do have in common is the same version of QT (6.5.2 Pro). I always view my Final Cut Movies in QT anyway.
Scott
Koz, are you sure about that? I have FCP on one machine, and iDVD on another, and my non-FCP machine can view my Final Cut Pro Movies (ver 3) just fine. That should be the ancient equivalent of a Quick Time Export, no? What they do have in common is the same version of QT (6.5.2 Pro). I always view my Final Cut Movies in QT anyway.
Scott
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 04:28AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 20 |
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 04:34AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 20 |
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 04:50AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 20 |
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 04:54AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 20 |
I'm still curious if anyone has any idea let me know. Between all the mov.'s to save as archival. the animation, H.264, Mjpeg-a. which one should I use to get the best quality mov possible. sorry if this sounds repetitive but I didn't really get a consice answer, it seemed rather vague. but could you explain why you would use a particular mov?
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 08:27AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,153 |
Hollywood wrote:
> I agree with scott quicktime is quicktime. it doesn't matter
> what version of FCP you have when you save an mov. at what ever
> compression or quality setting. ie. animation, H.264, Mjpeg-a,
> it should still play as long as you have quicktime.
Nope. Not all quicktime is the same. FCP Quicktime Movie with DV/DVCPro NTSC may be common but if you're creating an FCP Quicktime Movie Self Contained at DVCProHD you'll find people who don't have that codec won't be able to play the Quicktime Movie.
Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]
> I agree with scott quicktime is quicktime. it doesn't matter
> what version of FCP you have when you save an mov. at what ever
> compression or quality setting. ie. animation, H.264, Mjpeg-a,
> it should still play as long as you have quicktime.
Nope. Not all quicktime is the same. FCP Quicktime Movie with DV/DVCPro NTSC may be common but if you're creating an FCP Quicktime Movie Self Contained at DVCProHD you'll find people who don't have that codec won't be able to play the Quicktime Movie.
Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 09:23AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 5,764 |
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 11:30AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 823 |
Craig,
You said "...if you're creating an FCP Quicktime Movie Self Contained at DVCProHD you'll find people who don't have that codec won't be able to play the Quicktime Movie."
Is it safe to say that an FCP/QT movie (not conversion) will play on any computer's Quick Time if it is plain DV? As far as DVCProHD goes, is that codec enabled in QT by FCP itself when it is installed? Meaning that a computer without that version of FCP wouldn't have that codec in QT? Finally, do we know which codecs are native to QT before FCP ever gets involved?
Scott
You said "...if you're creating an FCP Quicktime Movie Self Contained at DVCProHD you'll find people who don't have that codec won't be able to play the Quicktime Movie."
Is it safe to say that an FCP/QT movie (not conversion) will play on any computer's Quick Time if it is plain DV? As far as DVCProHD goes, is that codec enabled in QT by FCP itself when it is installed? Meaning that a computer without that version of FCP wouldn't have that codec in QT? Finally, do we know which codecs are native to QT before FCP ever gets involved?
Scott
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 12:09PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,153 |
I have a Windows XP box with Quicktime 7.1 and no edit software other than Windows Movie Maker and Quicktime can play FCP Quicktime Movie Self Contained.
I haven't tried DVCPro50 yet but I know DVCProHD doesn't work. BTW you'll also notices that you can save (wrap) DV and DVCPro50 as AVI which is great if you need to send files to an Windows edit system BUT you'll discover there's also no way to save a DVCProHD file as AVI.
Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]
I haven't tried DVCPro50 yet but I know DVCProHD doesn't work. BTW you'll also notices that you can save (wrap) DV and DVCPro50 as AVI which is great if you need to send files to an Windows edit system BUT you'll discover there's also no way to save a DVCProHD file as AVI.
Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 01:40PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 180 |
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 02:06PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 20 |
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 02:11PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 20 |
Yeah, HD is still not there yet for the masses. The files are to big and requires lots of space especially hard drives. That is where H.264 comes in. I guess its the best codec, for now, to watch movies or anything HD.
When you say you can't view dvcpro HD is it compressed or uncompressed?
When you say you can't view dvcpro HD is it compressed or uncompressed?
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 02:47PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 20 |
Archival? I'd never use codecs that highly compress the footage like
H.264
or sorenson. I'd use the animation codec for archival. HUGE files,
but
really the best image.
Cool thanks for that, I like animation but I have a lot of herky jerky motion that doesn't play clean. I guess that's a hardware issue not the animation itself.
H.264
or sorenson. I'd use the animation codec for archival. HUGE files,
but
really the best image.
Cool thanks for that, I like animation but I have a lot of herky jerky motion that doesn't play clean. I guess that's a hardware issue not the animation itself.
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 02:54PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 20 |
that's true there's the FCP/quicktime mov. that only plays in FCP. Then there's the quicktime that everyone and their mother can play. which seems to fall into the standards of mpeg-2 and mpeg-4. H.264 is a standard under mpeg-4. Its' scaleable that's what makes it cool. so you can play it in your cell phone or watch it on broadband satellite HD.
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 03:21PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 20 |
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 04:10PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,153 |
Hollywood wrote:
> Yeah, HD is still not there yet for the masses. The files are
> to big and requires lots of space especially hard drives. That
> is where H.264 comes in. I guess its the best codec, for now,
> to watch movies or anything HD.
>
> When you say you can't view dvcpro HD is it compressed or
> uncompressed?
One must have the DVCPro HD codec to play the file. Nearly all formats to tape are compressed. DVCPro HD is compressed. So is HDCAM.
DVCPro HD can be played from any reasonably 7200rpm ATA, SATA and Firewire drive though. It's really not too demanding for a new Mac or Windows computer to play. It's certainly much bigger than needed if you're just viewing.
Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]
> Yeah, HD is still not there yet for the masses. The files are
> to big and requires lots of space especially hard drives. That
> is where H.264 comes in. I guess its the best codec, for now,
> to watch movies or anything HD.
>
> When you say you can't view dvcpro HD is it compressed or
> uncompressed?
One must have the DVCPro HD codec to play the file. Nearly all formats to tape are compressed. DVCPro HD is compressed. So is HDCAM.
DVCPro HD can be played from any reasonably 7200rpm ATA, SATA and Firewire drive though. It's really not too demanding for a new Mac or Windows computer to play. It's certainly much bigger than needed if you're just viewing.
Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 04:12PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,153 |
Hollywood wrote:
> Archival? I'd never use codecs that highly compress the
> footage like
> H.264
> or sorenson. I'd use the animation codec for archival. HUGE
> files,
> but
> really the best image.
>
>
> Cool thanks for that, I like animation but I have a lot of
> herky jerky motion that doesn't play clean. I guess that's a
> hardware issue not the animation itself.
Don't confuse archival with playback. Archival is to be used as a source for future editing or dubbing for example.
Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]
> Archival? I'd never use codecs that highly compress the
> footage like
> H.264
> or sorenson. I'd use the animation codec for archival. HUGE
> files,
> but
> really the best image.
>
>
> Cool thanks for that, I like animation but I have a lot of
> herky jerky motion that doesn't play clean. I guess that's a
> hardware issue not the animation itself.
Don't confuse archival with playback. Archival is to be used as a source for future editing or dubbing for example.
Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 04:16PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,153 |
Hollywood wrote:
> that's true there's the FCP/quicktime mov. that only plays in
> FCP. Then there's the quicktime that everyone and their mother
> can play. which seems to fall into the standards of mpeg-2 and
> mpeg-4. H.264 is a standard under mpeg-4. Its' scaleable
> that's what makes it cool. so you can play it in your cell
> phone or watch it on broadband satellite HD.
Quicktime is a wrapper. DV mov files can play on many computers.
Quicktime can be DV, DVCPro50, DVCProHD, 8 bit uncompressed, 10 bit uncompressed, etc. These can be .mov files for example.
Quicktime on the web are often Sorenson or Sorenson Pro. H.264 is actually MPEG4 Part 10. MPEGs (of various types) do not have .mov extensions. They can be played in Quicktime but I'm not sure I'd call them Quicktime in the sense that they are not .mov files.
Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]
> that's true there's the FCP/quicktime mov. that only plays in
> FCP. Then there's the quicktime that everyone and their mother
> can play. which seems to fall into the standards of mpeg-2 and
> mpeg-4. H.264 is a standard under mpeg-4. Its' scaleable
> that's what makes it cool. so you can play it in your cell
> phone or watch it on broadband satellite HD.
Quicktime is a wrapper. DV mov files can play on many computers.
Quicktime can be DV, DVCPro50, DVCProHD, 8 bit uncompressed, 10 bit uncompressed, etc. These can be .mov files for example.
Quicktime on the web are often Sorenson or Sorenson Pro. H.264 is actually MPEG4 Part 10. MPEGs (of various types) do not have .mov extensions. They can be played in Quicktime but I'm not sure I'd call them Quicktime in the sense that they are not .mov files.
Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 04:20PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,153 |
Hollywood wrote:
> Isn't DVCPRO50 too big of a file to play, using too much
> bandwith. it's like trying to play HD on your system. Isn't
> that why everything has to be compressed in one form or
> another. Does that seem right or does everything need to be
> played uncompressed.
DVCPro 50 can play on almost any 7200rpm hard drive and I believe it can play on 5400rpm hard drives too. It's twice the data rate of DV but that's very small.
You may compress things further for viewing but you want files at your "source" quality to do any editing/processing/archiviing with.
Heck DVCPro 50 IS compressed from camera sensor to tape (or other media these days like P2).
Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]
> Isn't DVCPRO50 too big of a file to play, using too much
> bandwith. it's like trying to play HD on your system. Isn't
> that why everything has to be compressed in one form or
> another. Does that seem right or does everything need to be
> played uncompressed.
DVCPro 50 can play on almost any 7200rpm hard drive and I believe it can play on 5400rpm hard drives too. It's twice the data rate of DV but that's very small.
You may compress things further for viewing but you want files at your "source" quality to do any editing/processing/archiviing with.
Heck DVCPro 50 IS compressed from camera sensor to tape (or other media these days like P2).
Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 05:06PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 20 |
yes, it seem that quicktime is leading the charge for compression and consumer products. other compressions softwares are here and there,not standardized or workable, mostly one dimensional. If I could get my hands on the movie industry codecs for compressing industry dvd, then you would have a good codec but that's not going to happen since it's proprietary. For now Quicktime is good for the masses, web and business. and now that mgeg -4 seems to be the thing and it's scaleable. mpeg-2 might be phased out in the long run. does anyone have insight to this.
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 05:16PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 20 |
yes I think dvcpro 50 is a 3:1 compression from the camera lens to the tape which is industry standard for TV. I guess now that mpeg is proving itself, the cameras are using this tecnology like mpeg-2 GOP, to acquire footage. I'm not sure what the compression is for that but the image seems to be clean and crisp, and that's what uncle winkie likes to see.
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 05:24PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 5,638 |
HW
"I'm still curious if anyone has any idea let me know."
Koz nailed it the first time.
export as QTMovie, same settings
is this rushes or a cut you're talking about?
for rushes, dont do anything to them, leave them as-is
what for of "archiving" are you thinking of?
the question needs to be re-satated more clearly to get a good answer
KOZ
"It's perfect, but nobody but you and people with your version of Final Cut can open it."
not true!
yes, if you double click on one, FCP opens,
but it'll play in QT.
in fact if you put one of those files on a system that doesn't have FCP, it'll have a QT icon, and open (and probably play in) the QT Player
now for some more thread drift
ANIMATION:
i had somebody (who is generally right) tell me the other day that Animation is a JPEG codec, and therefore Lossy.
any comments?
nick
"I'm still curious if anyone has any idea let me know."
Koz nailed it the first time.
export as QTMovie, same settings
is this rushes or a cut you're talking about?
for rushes, dont do anything to them, leave them as-is
what for of "archiving" are you thinking of?
the question needs to be re-satated more clearly to get a good answer
KOZ
"It's perfect, but nobody but you and people with your version of Final Cut can open it."
not true!
yes, if you double click on one, FCP opens,
but it'll play in QT.
in fact if you put one of those files on a system that doesn't have FCP, it'll have a QT icon, and open (and probably play in) the QT Player
now for some more thread drift
ANIMATION:
i had somebody (who is generally right) tell me the other day that Animation is a JPEG codec, and therefore Lossy.
any comments?
nick
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 06:09PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,153 |
Hollywood wrote:
> yes, it seem that quicktime is leading the charge for
> compression and consumer products. other compressions softwares
> are here and there,not standardized or workable, mostly one
> dimensional. If I could get my hands on the movie industry
> codecs for compressing industry dvd, then you would have a good
> codec but that's not going to happen since it's proprietary.
> For now Quicktime is good for the masses, web and business. and
> now that mgeg -4 seems to be the thing and it's scaleable.
> mpeg-2 might be phased out in the long run. does anyone have
> insight to this.
Look to see H.264 (MPEG4 Part 10) and VC-1 (WMV) to be the next "big" things. H.264 is already available to "us" and VC-1 should be available to "consumers" to in the not too distant future.
Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]
> yes, it seem that quicktime is leading the charge for
> compression and consumer products. other compressions softwares
> are here and there,not standardized or workable, mostly one
> dimensional. If I could get my hands on the movie industry
> codecs for compressing industry dvd, then you would have a good
> codec but that's not going to happen since it's proprietary.
> For now Quicktime is good for the masses, web and business. and
> now that mgeg -4 seems to be the thing and it's scaleable.
> mpeg-2 might be phased out in the long run. does anyone have
> insight to this.
Look to see H.264 (MPEG4 Part 10) and VC-1 (WMV) to be the next "big" things. H.264 is already available to "us" and VC-1 should be available to "consumers" to in the not too distant future.
Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 06:16PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,153 |
Hollywood wrote:
> yes I think dvcpro 50 is a 3:1 compression from the camera lens
> to the tape which is industry standard for TV. I guess now that
> mpeg is proving itself, the cameras are using this tecnology
> like mpeg-2 GOP, to acquire footage. I'm not sure what the
> compression is for that but the image seems to be clean and
> crisp, and that's what uncle winkie likes to see.
MPEG2 GOP for acquisition . . . UGH! Just don't do fast camera motion or shoot action sports.
There's also the just announced AVCHD (h.264) acquisition format.
The new Sony Cine Alta XDCAM HD seems to hold up as an acquistion format at its best data rate. 35mbps.
Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]
> yes I think dvcpro 50 is a 3:1 compression from the camera lens
> to the tape which is industry standard for TV. I guess now that
> mpeg is proving itself, the cameras are using this tecnology
> like mpeg-2 GOP, to acquire footage. I'm not sure what the
> compression is for that but the image seems to be clean and
> crisp, and that's what uncle winkie likes to see.
MPEG2 GOP for acquisition . . . UGH! Just don't do fast camera motion or shoot action sports.
There's also the just announced AVCHD (h.264) acquisition format.
The new Sony Cine Alta XDCAM HD seems to hold up as an acquistion format at its best data rate. 35mbps.
Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 06:28PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,153 |
Nick Meyers wrote:
>>
> now for some more thread drift
> ANIMATION:
> i had somebody (who is generally right) tell me the other day
> that Animation is a JPEG codec, and therefore Lossy.
>
> any comments?
>
>
> nick
>
See this
[www.siggraph.org]
It's lossles IF it's at 100% Quality which is how most people use it these days.
If you render a LiveType file and drop it into FCP, you may notice that it's Animation codec.
Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]
>>
> now for some more thread drift
> ANIMATION:
> i had somebody (who is generally right) tell me the other day
> that Animation is a JPEG codec, and therefore Lossy.
>
> any comments?
>
>
> nick
>
See this
[www.siggraph.org]
It's lossles IF it's at 100% Quality which is how most people use it these days.
If you render a LiveType file and drop it into FCP, you may notice that it's Animation codec.
Craig Seeman
[thirdplanetvideo.com]
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Re: best mov. May 25, 2006 07:47PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 5,638 |
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Re: best mov. May 26, 2006 01:32AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 77 |
wow thanks for the class, people I took notes and everything!!!!!!
Just to say just did a self compress fcp movie of hdv timeline and could not open in another computer, that had older versios of both FCP and quicktime...
I figure dont have the codecs available.
thanks again...
oh another question to compress hdv for internet ?
many many thanks
J. garcia
Thanks
J. García
[casualthinking.com]
Just to say just did a self compress fcp movie of hdv timeline and could not open in another computer, that had older versios of both FCP and quicktime...
I figure dont have the codecs available.
thanks again...
oh another question to compress hdv for internet ?
many many thanks
J. garcia
Thanks
J. García
[casualthinking.com]
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