.omf won't synch to video

I ran across an anomaly which has the sound studio I'm working with stumped. I cut a one-hour 4:3 doc on the G-4 in FCP 4.5HD, exported both an .aiff and an .omf. Then I made a .mov file (12 gig) of the film. I burned a copy of the doc to DVCAM. The idea was they'd sweeten the sound from a previous language version, and then dump up to Digi Beta, which I need to deliver to my distributor. (This is all PAL we're talking about.) The sound studio opened up protools, and imported the omf and aiff, and opened up the previous version of the protools session I did at another studio, in another language but with the same music and effects and interviews, just a different narratin track. Then they brought in the DVCAM picture, which had been dumped up to Digibeta, into the session. But no matter what they tried they couldn't get the picture, from the DigiBeta to synch up with the omf.
Any ideas?

Thanks,
Keep up the great work with a terrific forum.

I assume you put in a countdown and 2-pop?

Did you cross-check the frame rates and sample rates between the OMF, AIFFs, timeline, and ProTools sessions? Does the exported AIFF sync up with your project timeline?

I also see some unnecessary steps being taken here. Why are you giving the sound people their picture reference with two intermediaries in between -- the DVCam and the DigiBeta tapes? Why not simply export a movie file from FCP (it can be compressed in quality if the sound people so desire) so that the sound people can access the picture reference digitally?

Hi Derek

I exported the movie as DV-PAL according to the sound studio's request. However once I arrived they admitted they'd erred, and needed a small quicktime .mov, but by then it was too late. I'd even brought the hard-drive with me, to no avail since their old G-4 running OS 9 didn't see my HD for some reason, nor did it see two of the DVDs.

I shall try to remount the .aiff I exported against the video on the time line of the 12 gig mov.

The problem wasn't during the entire timeline, just as the timeline progressed, then the sound began to drift out of synch.

Frustrating since the studio and I are in different cities, separated by an hour's drive.

Thanks for your suggestions. Still open to other ideas.

> exported the movie as DV-PAL according to the sound studio's request.
> However once I arrived they admitted they'd erred, and needed a small
> quicktime .mov, but by then it was too late.

Boo! What are they talking about? A DV PAL movie exported from FCP *would* be a QuickTime movie. Most of the time people have compatibility problems if they're using more advanced codecs than their delivery destination, but DV PAL's been around forever. Still, if you're talking about an OS9 machine...

Another option you might have tried would be to simply use their machine to re-export the DV PAL movie file. If their issue was file size (perhaps playback being too slow on their machine), you could try compressing it right then and there. Compression of a movie file isn't in real time, and even an old G4 should be able to do it.

Sound facilities always need to be specific about what deliverables you have to give them.

> I'd even brought the hard-drive with me, to no avail since their old G-4
> running OS 9 didn't see my HD for some reason

OS9 systems often need specific drivers installed in order to see external drives. Check the CD/DVD that may have come with your drive. For example, every one of my Promax FireWire drives came with a CD. But I've never had to use it because OSX doesn't need those drivers.

> The problem wasn't during the entire timeline, just as the timeline
> progressed, then the sound began to drift out of synch.

Then my bet is on playback not being able to keep up, or a sample rate issue.
Where is the media? Are you trying to play the entire 12GB movie front to back? Does the sync come back if you stop the playback and then start again? Are you trying to use a USB drive? Those can't keep up with continuous playback. When you say the "sound drifts", are you talking about the AIFF, the OMF, or the movie file? Have you cross-checked the three -- do they drift in the same way, or differently? Or is the video drifting?

> Frustrating since the studio and I are in different cities, separated by an
> hour's drive.

That's what FTP sites are for.

When you're checking sync on all your materials, you need to check against both the 12GB DV PAL movie file and the original timeline you did your editing on. You can't necessarily assume the two will be the same, though ascertaining that would certainly be a desireable thing to do. Make a copy of your editing timeline, lay the DV PAL movie on top of it, then do a split-screen between the two. Are they accurate and identical to the frame? If not, then you might have to ditch the movie file and start anew. Now lay the AIFF on the timeline and sync it up with the original sound using the 2-pop. Do you hear phasing between your original edited sound and the AIFF? If so, one of them is off.

Hi Derek

First, the 12 gig .mov issue. The technician said that the file was too big for them to play. Don't know what sort of set-up they're running, other than it's a G-4 on OS9.

I don't use USB for video. Never have. Learned that reading this excellent forum.

They didn't have space for me to do any FCP work, like opening up the .mov file and seeing if their .omf worked on it. I was clear about what I needed to bring. They specificed DV-PAL but the technician, it turns out, didn't really know of what he spoke, when it came to video. Too bad for me. But thems the breaks.

My process was this:
a.) export both an .omf and .aiff from the original timeline.
b.) export the .mov self-contained.
c.) record the one-hour doc onto DVCAM.

What I didn't do was to export a small .mpg1 file or small .mov of the movie. As I said, they didn't have room for me to play around with any editing. Busy place.

As for FTP, I doubt if they have the patience or manpower to upload the file. They've put it on a CD, or DVD, and I expect to get it back later in the day. Then I'll see.

Only thing I can figure is what you said, that the .mov 12 gig is slightly different than the timeline. Don't understand how this could be, but that's the way it seems to be.

Thanks
LP

> that the .mov 12 gig is slightly different than the timeline. Don't understand
> how this could be, but that's the way it seems to be.

Remember that sync drifts can occur during playback. Until you move the 12GB movie file to a fast enough location for real-time playback, and then compare it against the original timeline and the audio materials, you won't know which step went wrong...or even *if* any step went wrong.

If they are on system 9 they need to be at 9.2.2 in order to see files over 2 gig. Possibly they are outputting in 'parts', which is almost invisible and don't even know this is a problem.

I think. but am not certain, that there is also a 120gig limit on drive sizes in OS9 - even the latest versions.

None of this really helps with your problem, but it might help explain part of the drive fail to mount issues.

Everything everywhere is 48khz, right?

Everything was 48mghz.
As I understood the process, they hooked up a DigiBeta player to the G-4, synched the player up to the timeline, and ran the protools files against the picture. I don't think they ever digitiized the video to the protools session, just ran it as sort of a phantom. But I may be wrong.

They never captured the .mov file to their disk, and yes, my disk was 250 gig external firewire, and it wouldn't mount on the OS9.

I was told that the studio, with four protools workstations on a network, will soon be switching to the later version of Protools, one that runs under OSX. I just showed up a few months before they upgraded their studio.

In any case there was drift.

I received the "bounce" from them. That's the sweetened sound output from Protools, but haven't had a chance to put it on the original timeline and check it out. I'll do that in a few hours.

The upload from DVCAM to BetaDigi was the main reason I went to this studio, with some sound tweeking along the way. Got a lot more headaches than I bargained for. I'll let you know if there's still synch problems in the original timeline. I doubt there will be but who knows what the devils in the details have planned?

I finally received the .aiff.
1.) It did not synch up on the timeline.
2.) The sound was muffled.
I decided to can the .aiff stuff from the sound studio, go back to the
"unsweetened" sound, and print it to DVCAM again.
The sound was sharp on the .mov sitting on the hard drive.
The sound was muffled from the time line.
I'm at the stage where confusion has over-ridden confidence.
Wondering if perhaps logic doesn't dictate that I exported an .omf from a version of the film different from the final video, as unlikely as that seems to me.
Lastly, when I tried to save the project I received an error message, some problem with the disk volume. I'd ejected the firewire drive, by pulling it into the trash, then brought it over to a new Imac Intel 17" to see if it would synch up on that machine. No luck there either.

Also, to finish up, I couldn't open up the CD I received from the sound studio on the G-4, but could on the new Imac Intel, although both machines were running the same OSX.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Rather frustrating and annoying.

Wow - what a saga.

I would back up to step one and start over with the audio post facility - or better yet, switch audio post facilities to another one that gives you more confidence.

1] Make a new QT movie from the FCP timeline - one that they can play
2] Make a new OMF
3] Make a new AIFF

Bring everything to the facility and see how it all syncs up. If they can't sync these three items, go somewhere else that can.

Also, do you have tail pops on all your elements? If you do, compare the timecode of the tail pop between the digibeta and the OMF. That will at lease confirm whether you made a mistake of outputting different versions.