Third Party Ram Wrecking Havoc?

Hi Everyone,

I have a PowerMac G5 Quad that I purchased from the Mac Mall. In the deal they were offering they threw in 2 extra gigs of Ram so I now have 4 Gigs Ram. I have have nothing but problems with this G5 since day one. I spend more time on the phone with Apple Care trouble shooting than I do editing. I have physically taken the machine back to the Apple Store three times last week. Had the hard drive completely erased and all the software reinstalled and I'm still having problems with my applications quitting unexpectedly and losing data. I have followed all the Larry Jordon tips on optimizing your computer and still it's buggy. The Mac Genuis said it could be this "third party ram" that came from the Mac Mall. Has anyone ever heard of problems caused by third party ram? BTW I had no idea I was getting third party ram in the deal. Since it was coming from the Mac Mall, I just assumed it would be Mac Ram. Like I don't really expect to walk out with a Dell when I shop at the Apple Store, so I'm not sure what's up with this MacMall. Anyway, before I tear everything apart and haul it back to the Apple store for the fourth time, I'm wondering if I should remove the third party ram to see if that helps. However, I'm not sure I will be able to diistinquish between the Apple Ram and third party ram. Any comments, suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

It can very well be caused by 3rd party RAM. I had a strip in my Powerbook that was causing software to unexpectedly quit and giving me kernal panics. My wife's company bought a brand new Quad and had the reseller max out the RAM. They couldn't get it to stay on for more than 20 minutes. Had the logic board replaced a couple times, many different things, finally tracked down to the bad RAM.

Pull the RAM out and try it. It's probably the RAM in the outer slots. Depending on your RAM configuration, it will be the two or four outer strips of RAM. Either one on each side or two on each side.

travis ballstadt
www.thrillcateditorial.com

G5DP2.5ghz, 4.5gbRAM, 2TB external SATA, Panasonic AJ-D455, G4PB1ghz, 15", 1gbRAM

Apple ram goes bad too. You can do a hardware test for bad ram with the CD that came with your Mac. I cant believe the Apple store didn't run a test. On of the first things they do when all else fails.

Michael Horton
-------------------

When I bought my machine, they were offering name-brand, but not Apple Brand RAM. I bought expensive, certified, third party "Crucial" RAM. I've done this before on other machines and have been perfectly happy. Apple Certified is the other way to go.

The two sets of RAM should have very different markings. The Mac Mall strips should be by "Kingston". I'm betting the rest are Apple Branded--although now that I look at it, my original RAM was made by "Hynix."

There should be markings on the motherboard that tell you strip number. First strip, second strip, etc. Generally, they start with the first two strips stuffed.

I agree completely, by the way. I think you have bad RAM.

Have you ever handled semiconductor assemblies? There are a few rules....

Koz

Thanks everyone.

Okay, I'd like to pull the Ram out but that will leave me with only 512 MB of Apple Ram. Is that enough to run Final Cut Studio? I use all the applications in the studio, Livetype, Soundtrack Pro, DVD studio pro, etc. The guy at the Apple Store (who is not a Pro Apps specialist) is telling me that it will run fine on 512. What are the repercussions of running FCS on only 515 MB of Ram?

Just pull it long enough to test it. FCP will run (not quickly) on 512mb. You won't want to work with it at that speed, but you'll at least be able to see if that is the cause of your crashes. If it is, you return the RAM in exchange for qualified RAM.

travis ballstadt
www.thrillcateditorial.com

G5DP2.5ghz, 4.5gbRAM, 2TB external SATA, Panasonic AJ-D455, G4PB1ghz, 15", 1gbRAM

Bad ram will crash all apps. You dont need FCP to test the problem. Just spend some time with Safari and email etc and you should know. Better yet, just run a diagnostic test with the CD that came with your Mac before you pull the ram.

Michael Horton
-------------------

I just bought 2 GB of RAM from Memory4less. No problems with FCP. This thread is making me feel lucky though! Hope RAM isn't a time bomb lurking on my computer. I'll run that diagnostics CD for good measure.

I bought3 gigs at crusial when i got my quad...happy here....like Stu said....hope I don't have a timeBomb :

<<<I don't have a timeBomb :>>>

No. Crucial tests the sticks for transfer speed and then unconditionally guarantees the work. That's one of the reasons you pay the bux. If you bought the recommended sticks for your machine, you're covered.

Ummm. You know about the static electric grounding thing and not touching the gold and all the rest of it, right?

Koz

I had two 512 strips when I ordered it. Then I bought two 1 Gig strips and found out the hard way that I had to put those two strips in the middle and move the 512s next to them, one above, one below. I added four more 512s for a total of 4 Gigs of Ram. To tell you the truth I don't even remember what brand they were. Each pair however is the same brand. I know I have one Kingston pair. They have to be pc3200 DDR Ram that's all I know.

No problems with ram here ...

<<<Have you ever handled semiconductor assemblies? There are a few rules....>>>

<<<Ummm. You know about the static electric grounding thing and not touching the gold and all the rest of it, right?
>>>

A lot of scary silence followed these questions....

Scott

wowo
is this it? fcp has been crashing like MAD on me, driving me insane. I thought it was bc i was manipulating a bunch of graphic files with lots of filters, but i have my ram in this order: 512, 512, 1gb, 1gb. should i change it around so that i have 512, 1gb, 1gb, 512?

oh please please please let that be my problem!!
g

The position of the strips should be (for your 4 Gigs of Ram):

1. empty
2. 512
3. 512
4. 1 Gig
5. 1 Gig
6. 512
7. 512
8. empty

The pairs 2 and 7 should be the same brand.
The pairs 3 and 6 should be the same brand.
The pairs 4 and 5 should be the same brand.

so i should start from 4 &5 and move outwards in matching pairs?
thanks!!!
g

Quote

I bought two 1 Gig strips and found out the hard way that I had to put those two strips in the middle and move the 512s next to them

How should I possition two 256's and two 1GB? I believe I have 'em as follows....

empty
empty
1GB
256

256
1GB
empty
empty

Everything works fine. Is it possible I have a time bomb waiting to go off?

Yup.

<<<A lot of scary silence followed these questions.... >>>

Does have some of the symptoms of a train wreck, doesn't it?

Koz

If you had 3 and a half Gigs of Ram, this is how you'd place them:
the 1 Gig strips go to 4 and 5
the 512 MB strips go to 3 and 6
the 256 MB strips go to 2 and 7
1 and 8 will stay empty.

The big Gigs go in the center (4 and 5) and the smaller ones go next (the 512) and the 256 MB strips go after them.

So if you had 4 and a half Gigs worth of strips and you had a pair of 256 strips, here's how it would go:

1. 256
2. 512
3. 512
4. 1
5. 1
6. 512
7. 512
8. 256

<<<Have you ever handled semiconductor assemblies? There are a few rules....>>>

Is this the order of the strips positioned in the slots explained in Filmman's post?

<<<Ummm. You know about the static electric grounding thing and not touching the gold and all the rest of it, right? >>>

No, I do not. Please elaborate.

Also, I wanted to mention that the "Apple Genuis" did test the Ram and the test did not reveal any problems. However, he explained that the test just "randomly" test Ram and is not accurate.

Man, I'm really getting confused. Two weeks and still don't know for sure what is wrong. I guess I'll try the repositioning of the strips, please explain how to ground myself, and what else I need to know... Is this something I can do myself or should get someone who has done it before? I upgraded the Ram on my laptop last year, but the G5 is obviously more complicated.

I really need to get this resolved soon and taking it back and forth to Apple is getting me NOWHERE. Any suggestions are much appreaciated.

[rolling up sleeves]

If you take reasonable precautions, all of this should work out just fine.

Shut the machine down and **pull the power plug**. Go find about a foot or so of clean aluminum foil.


The bottoms of the memory modules have either gold or silver feet. That's how they talk to the outside world. The grease from your fingers is enough to mess with the connection, if not now, then possibly down the road a little. The grease on your fingers is slightly acid and will cause corrosion. So don't touch the little feet.

The static elecrtricity of you walking across the floor in a dry room is enough to destroy electronics. When you open the case, make sure some part of your flesh is always leaning on a metal part of the case. Any part, really. If you're good with Yoga, keep your bare knee pressed against the metal case while you work. People make "static straps" that you can wear to tie you to the case and let you move around (like a dog's leash to his master) but if you're careful, you can do it by leaning on the case.

Try to remember which side was facing what when you take the modules out. Most of them won't go in backwards, but there's always that chance. Keep a notepad and pencil next to the machine as you work.

If you have to remove more than one module, spread the aluminum foil out--again touching some part of the metal case and lay the modules on that. You can wrap up the modules and transport or store them like that. Once they're wrapped in foil, they're pretty bulletproof.

The actual diagnostic action is up to you. Those are the operating rules.

Have fun.

Koz

<<<I'm still having problems with my applications quitting unexpectedly and losing data. >>>

Just because I went back and looked at the original post.

Apple diagnostics tend to be very thorough and complete--but they only test the basic machine. One pattern I see here is that the machine seems to work perfectly at anybody's house but yours.

Pack up the whole thing and see if it works at your mom's house--assuming she lives somewhere else. There are edit rooms that can be broken.

Also, no doubt you have a bunch of things connected to this machine while you're working that *didn't* go with you to the Apple Store. Pull everything out of the machine until you get it to what it looked like when MacMall checked it and see if it doesn't start acting better.

Do you have **any** external hard drives and are they filling up? Are any of the internal drives including the System Drive filling up? A drive filling up (over 90% full) anywhere in the same room with you will cause insane, destructive, unstable behavior.

Koz

Do all that Koz suggests. I'm going to make sure I keep all that in mind in the future when I handle those components.

But don't forget to re-order your Ram strips. I don't know if that's all your problem, but putting those 256 strips in the middle is going to reduce all the Ram memory of all the 1 Gig and half Gig strips to 256 each. Your G5 will work but with all your Ram being counted as 256 MB each.

You can check this under Apple info on top left of your computer menu. You will see exactly what your Ram memory is (as well as other features of your computer.)

And make sure when you install the Ram memory strips that they click in place and the retaining clamps close in properly on the indented strip knotches. use your thumb to push them in all the way. Make sure they're aligned and sitting in the right way. There is a gap in the teeth of each strip. It's an uneven distance. Make sure you put the strip in the right way. Use a flash light if you have to. Match the teeth to the ... gums? Oh, well, you know what I mean. LOL (No, I don't wear dentures ... yet :-)

Thank you all so much for the very thorough instructions to help me trouble shoot. I will follow the procedures, stay optimistic and hope for the best.

As I read the advice here more things come to mind that I think I should mention to help you help me. This is all I can think of for now.

<<<no doubt you have a bunch of things connected to this machine while you're working that *didn't* go with you to the Apple Store.>>>

My set up is very simple because right now I'm only working with DV and non broadcast material. Here's what's plugged into G5 (180 gigs free space)

2 Multysync FE 1250+ monitors
APC backup/surge protector (I never turn it off)
Klipsch speakers
250 MB Lacie 2D HD Extreme (23 gigs free space)

I've been reading the horrors of Lacie and plan to replace it right away with the GRaid I've been hearing so much about.

I had to move a lot of data to Lacie before the G5 HD was erased and reloaded. Now I have only 23 of the 250 gigs left on Lacie which according to what you're saying is getting dangerous. But please note that the G5 was acting flakey when Lacie was only half full.

I also want to mention after reading the "...why I hate Lacie" threads that I think I should mention that the Lacie is plugged into the APC Battery backup/surge protector and is on all the time. Would keeping it on all the time cause these problems?

You should also know that the crashes and weirdness is intermittant. I can work sometimes for a few hours with no event then boom -- application quits, or FCP doesn't respond to commands, etc.

Thanks again for your support.

Wrecking Havoc?
Come come now!
I went to AMERICAN public school and even I know
the difference between wreck and wreak. :-)

wreak (rk)
tr.v. wreaked, wreak·ing, wreaks
1. To inflict (vengeance or punishment) upon a person.
2. To express or gratify (anger, malevolence, or resentment); vent.
3. To bring about; cause: wreak havoc.
4. Archaic To take vengeance for; avenge.

Now if only the masses would stop spelling lose "LOOSE"
Now THAT drives me up a wall.

Kevin Monahan
Social Support Lead, DV Products
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I no, I no, Kevin. I reelize I mispeled and kringe when I see my mistacks. Im a stikler, two about speling and gramer, two. I will bee moor careful from now on.

PF. Thanx fer the lessin.

Wuz just kiddin' ya.