iMac extended desktop + NTSC monitor?

Is there a method to jointly connect a second VGA monitor for extended desktop support along with a NTSC monitor via S-Video using the single DV port on iMac shipped 9/14/06?

Frank,

If im remembering the right version then the iMac has a Mini-DVI output port with support for DVI, VGA, S-video, and composite video connections (via an adapter) so this should solve that problem.

Regarding the NTSC monitor then you basically need a basic consumer IO Box which will take a DV signal and provide you with output to your monitor via composite or S-Video. There are several consumer products on the market that will let you do this.

Josh - So you're saying to run out of the DVI port in to an IO box then from the box to the second desktop monitor and to the NTSC monitor?

So between Tiger and FCP, they'll control the DVI port so the right signal goes to the right place?

I would be surprised if you could so separate things with all the ports. You are probably going to get higher and lower quality versions of the same thing. For example, they normally use the S-Video signals to make the NTSC. You can't separate them.

Koz

Frank,

Not quite. If i understood rightly you wanted a second computer monitor and also a NTSC monitor for viewing your work? the Mini-DVI port will allow you to have a second Computer monitor as you would with a normal Tower and two monitors.

we have a couple of DAC-200s (http://www.synchrotech.com/product-1394/analog-dv-converter_01.html) - Firewire out to the magic box - which then give you composite, S-Video and phono jacks.

So the mac/system deals with the second monitor as per normal. and in final cut you set your output to DV NTSC - the box words but it can be buggy.

<<<So the mac/system deals with the second monitor as per normal. and in final cut you set your output to DV NTSC>>>

Yes. Exactly.

But the answer to the original question is no. You can't split up the DVI connection.

Koz

Koz forgive me but im sure that isn't the case, the imacs provide support for external display's in extended desktop, not just mirrored. To quote the Apple website:

? Support for external display in extended desktop
Digital resolutions up to 1920 x 1200
Analog resolutions up to 2048 x 1536
? Support for external display in video mirroring mode


The iMacs have had this ability (via the ATI Radeon cards) for several years yet they chose to 'disable' it. There has been a hack / firmware patch that has made it possible on many iMacs.

Josh - Just so I understand clearly; You're saying the one mini-DVI port will drive the second monitor, while the DAC-200 will drive the NTSC monitor via Firewire?

The DAC-200 and the Canopus ADVC110 will display your timeline on an NTSC monitor but they rely on the sequence being DV resolution.
To display any resolution sequence on an NTSC monitor you will need a capture/output card that can handle all the resolutions like the Kona 3 or Blackmagic cards.

ak

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!

So Andrew, I want to display the canvas on the NTSC monitor not the timeline, maybe that's what you meant.

When you say "The DAC-200 and the Canopus ADVC110 will display your timeline on an NTSC monitor but they rely on the sequence being DV resolution."; do you mean that the sequence must be all rendered or that the timeline video preview has to be set at maximum quality?

Unless i've made a un-holy mistake with the imac then yes frank, spot on. DVI for your monitor and Firewire (via the DAC or equivelant) for your 'TV output'

the DAC-200 can be set to work with either NTSC or PAL - it has switchers on the reverse of the box.

But yes like andrew said, a box like the DAC-200 can only manage DV res (hence consumer)

Just so we're using the same Engllish words:

You cannot, as far as I know, reserve *some* of the little gold pins in the connector for the NTSC output of your Final Cut timeline at the same time the computer screen is on other gold pins.

Yes, I agree completely, you can make the DVI connector do any *one* job that you wish. Mirror, Extended, possibly even the Final Cut Timeline, you got me there. But it won't do two different jobs which I read as the original question.

I'm hoping someone argues with me about that. It would be handy to split the pins.

Koz

To sum up and hopefully clarify.

For an extra monitor to give you more space to look at your bins and timeline and keep your myspace page open while you edit, you would use the DVI port to hook up another computer monitor. I suggest this one because I know you have loads of moolah...

To view your edits playing back on an NTSC or PAL monitor you would need one of the aforementioned boxes that perform the function of turning a DV resolution timeline into NTSC or PAL signal. (No they won't convert between NTSC or PAL) This means that the sequence setting has to be set to DV. If you are editing footage that was brought in at any other resolution (HDV? I am so sorry for you...) you will need another solution to view your sequence on an NTSC monitor.

As in all things editing/FCP/Apple there are always a few simple answers to basic questions but they are hiding some massive "unless you plan on doing X, in which case..."

Splitting pins and hairs
ak

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!

I think you are all complicating this a bit. All you need do to hook up an external NTSC monitor to an iMac is connect a deck or camera via FW to the iMac and connect the NTSC monitor via S-video to the deck/camera.

Michael Horton
-------------------

Andrew -

Can you please say more about video needing to be brought in as DV in order to display on an NTSC monitor via a codec box. Are you referring to the other formats FCP supports because I thought FCP converted everything to one format or file type, which ever be the case.

The second question is whether running firewire-out thru a camera or deck to an NTSC monitor would give you a true enough picture (not calibrated) or does a $200. codec box do a better job?

Frank,
I think I need to know more about what your set up is because we're getting into the "anything is possible" realm of FCP. That, and I don't know how experienced you are with video, editing and FCP.
You can bring anything into FCP at almost any resolution. Your limitations for bringing it in are the hardware to capture it (DV=Firewire device or camera, HD=Kona3/Blackmagic etc) and the drives to play it back on (DV=Firewire drive or seprate internal drive, HD= SATA or Fibre RAID or ?)
Once you have it in the system, You can create any resolution timeline to play it back. Your limtations are what your highest and lowest resolution footage is and how you want to deal with the quality issues. As for outputing or monitoring on a non-computer monitor (NTSC/PAL or HD) your limitations are again the drives you are playing back from and the hardware you have to handle the signal.
The basic most used and demoed use of FCP is footage shot on DV, captured over firewire from the camera and played back through the camera to an NTSC monitor and eventually recorded back to DV.

To answer your two questions directly, FCP can convert almost anything to anything else but it can't do it in realtime so you have to know what yo uare dealing with and how the renders are going to affect your workflow.

There isn't a huge difference between using a camera or deck or one of the DV codec boxes. The boxes are essentially decks without the tape mechanisms. Some boxes have a better selection of analogue ins and outs but if you already own a camera you have almost everyting you need for a basic DV/firewire based capture/edit/record system.

ak

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!

Andrew -

Thank you. I will only be dealing with DV stored internally from a camera on an iMac. My goal is to see an NTSC version of what I've edited as it would appear in the canvas window. So to that end, is the method we've been discussing an effective way to check-see via the NTSC monitor what the video will look in it's final form?

Yep.
iMac firewired to camera, camera S-video/RCA to NTSC monitor.
Under menu item Final Cut Pro go to Audio/Video Settings and AV devices. Select Apple Firewire NTSC for Video and Firewire DV for Audio.

That's yer set up.

The caveats still remaining are that your monitor, if it's just a plain TV will be hard to calibrate so you might find that stuff that looked OK on your TV looks quite different on another TV. When you are working at this level that you are at it is always a good idea to gather a mental list of places you can go to look at your almost finished project on different monitors and sound systems.
Listen carefully and watch closely for stuff that your system may have "hidden". Go back and tweak. Ponder a moment on the situation/s that the final product will be played in.

There is all manner of other bumps in the road ahead for you but read this forum and any others you can find and learn from other people trial and tribulations.

ak

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!