On2 Flix has no pre-sales support

on2 has no pre-sales support. you can not even send an email unless you buy the product and become a registered user. there is no return policy it f you buy it.

if anyone has On2 flix please let me know if there is a phone number. i am getting a flash file but it is really skippy and will only play once after encode. seems to have a feature that give you an auto preview but after that no play. it doesn't play from my server either.

it is seemingly the only option i have under 400 bucks.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

yeah, their website information and sales support blows! and why i almost didnt buy their product.

im guessing youre using the demo of flix pro standalone?

are you outputting an flv file? flv's are not playble on their own. they need to be embedded into a webpage. you might try exporting a swf, thay can standalone.

this is where owning drreamweaver comes in REALLY HANDY!

if you want to steal my page code, go here:

[h2obo.net]

eye see

so if i upload it to my server and try to view via web adress/ file name it still would not play?

oh and yes i am using flix pro standalone.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

not from my experience no. it tries to download it to your machine - kinda liek it handles a zip file.

go to my samples page:

[understandinc.com]

and click on the top file: 08_21_06_spiderman.flv

its the same movie from the link i sent earlier, but without the embedding code, it will just try to download it. you might try it on a pc if you have one handy

Hi again, Jeff.

To play an .flv file, it must be played via a Flash "Player" program. On most people's machines, both Windows and Macs, this means they must have Adobe (formerly Macromedia) Flash installed. Fortunately, most pleople have already installed Flash, which is why Flash movies play on more computers than any other format and why Apple uses Flash to show their ads on the net, rather than .mp4 or .mov.

In addition to having Flash installed, the website must have a Flash .swf program, which links to the .flv file, embedded into an html page.

I have Flash 8 - which contains a program similar to the On2 Flix standard for making .flv files - but you do need to know Flash to use it.

According to On2, Flix standard ($39.95) will create a complete html document and all the needed .swf files for you. - It's probably the program for you. If you need more flexibility, you will also need to learn Flash, in which case this forum is not the best location for advice - you will need a Flash Forum

My advice - get Flix standard, see if it works for you. If it doesn't use both .wmv and .mov/mp4 files, giving the site's viewers a choice of formats.

Good luck on this one.

Travis
VoiceOver Guy and Entertainment Technology Enthusiast
[www.VOTalent.com]

ok let me get this strait.

i have macromedoia and adobe flash players and they will not play these files on my cpu.
you say if i get them embedded into my site they will play.
if i upload them and attempt to view the file from a browser window they will not play.

this is my understanding of what you have said Travis. would i be correct?

i am also understanding you to have recomended the flix standard rather than flix pro or flix exporter. even though standard does not allow 2pass encoding.

Q.
is it that the flix pro would be a little to envolved for a beginner?
would the exporter be an inbetween of the 2 ( standard and pro ).

i am sorry for all the questions i just need to get something today. this project has fooled with my emotions enough.

THANX

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

ps
i like the fact that the flix pro gives me the option of creating a player which is not a usable option with the demo. i just wonder if that would solve my local play back issue or if it would be bad for my embedded video on my site.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

Since I don't have the On2 product myself, I can only give you what I know as a Flash 8 user who has looked at the on2 site.

That said...

Quote

if i upload them and attempt to view the file from a browser window they will not play

Correct! - unless your application will create a .swf file, which contains a link to your .flv file, it will not be playable on any machine (except for ones with Flash 8 developer systems.)

Quote

i am also understanding you to have recomended the flix standard rather than flix pro or flix exporter. even though standard does not allow 2pass encoding....is it that the flix pro would be a little to envolved for a beginner?

Yes, (especially since you're in a hurry) and it's $210.00 cheaper. In the stuff I've encoded for the web, I have not seen a great deal of difference between one-pass and two-pass encoding. So you could at least try the "standard" version to determine if you need the "Pro" version. there might even be an upgrade path. It all seems less risky to me.

Quote

would the exporter be an inbetween of the 2 ( standard and pro )

From what I can see from the On2 site, the exporter is more geared towards those who are familiar with Flash (I could easily be wrong on this.) The concept also scares me a bit because I don't know if the ap will work properly with the next version of FCP (or even the current one.) Again, starting with the standard version will give you something to get started with at miminal cost, and probably the shortest learning curve.

Remember, since I don't own any of the On2 software, I could easily be wrong on anything I've explained here. Again, it would be safest to start with the "standard" version, then upgrade later.

I'm offline for most of the rest of the day - good luck!

Travis
VoiceOver Guy and Entertainment Technology Enthusiast
[www.VOTalent.com]

Is the adobe flash 8 encoder easy to use? i mean ieven if its a little tiny bit of a learning curb but would give me the higher quality i might just opted for that to be sure that if i am getting a solid format 90% universal .flv i dont really need to be able to bulid websites ( would be awful to have it though), i just need a really clean web video that can be played on mac and pc. the pc is the one i am sure most of my clients have pc's and its some what of a general public site.

i just need a good flv encoder that i can learn in 4-6 hrs or so and i am getting to the point of not caring about price.

thanx again

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

Hi Jeff.

The only advantage you get by buying Flash 8, is that you get Flash. You get roughly the same video capabilities that you get with 0n2 Flix standard. If all you want to do is put video up on the web with Flash-8 encoding, Flash will give you very little.

As to whether using Flash 8 is "easy", that would depend on your definition of "easy". If you are using Flash 8, you will need to learn a bit about Flash. Now, in my opinion, anyone who is serious about using Flash video, should learn some of the basics of Flash. My guess is that would take someone who's pretty good with FCP, and understands basic html, about twenty hours with a pretty good Flash book to get to a point where you're ready to do some useful work.

Good luck.

Travis
VoiceOver Guy and Entertainment Technology Enthusiast
[www.VOTalent.com]

IMO, flash is the LEAST intuitive and more difficult to learn applications out there. and i used to teach it!

like travis says, if you just want to export playable movies, and not work them into the site design, there is no reason to have the flash application itself.

all you have to do is select SWF instead of FLV as your export option. not sure if the cheaper On2 option give you that...???

Hi Wayne.

Selecting .swf for flash video is NOT the thing to do if you're looking for high-quality streaming video. While it is possible to get good quality video from a .swf file, the bitrate/quality ratio is far inferior to .flv . Flash 7 introduced the .flv (Sorenson) format to Flash. Flash 8 provided the improved .flv (0n2) format. "Flash-8" video compares favorably to .mp4 and .wmv .

The downside to .flv files is that they aren't imbeded within a flash . swf file - they must be uploaded independently, then called from within a .swf file. However, it all works quite well.

It's too bad that the world hasn't standardized on a video format that we can count on everybody having in their browser - should have happened years ago.

Travis
VoiceOver Guy and Entertainment Technology Enthusiast
[www.VOTalent.com]

so when i tell on2 flix pro to create a flv i have to create a swf also.
i uploaded a flv for my developer to put on my sight nothing shows up.

file link www.creekcitytv.com/webgems.flv

i dont know why yes it is still from the demo version but i was trying it to see if it would play while embedded and no go.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

Okay Jeff... Time to start from the beginning.

A) Your application needs to create three items (1) the .flv file, (2) the .swf file, and ((3) an HTML.

B) The .swf file is created by Flash or Flix - it is a Flash program which links to your .flv file.

C) The HTML document needs to connect to the .swf file - a process known as "embedding".

D) All three files, along with possibly an additional .swf file (which is a "projector" program, written in Flash) need to be uploaded to you website.

E) If your "web developer" doesn't already understand this, you need a new developer (unless he/she is a relative.)

If you're going to be posting much video on the web, you need to learn about this stuff - and probably how to post the material on the web yourself.

Here's the video you provided, set up on the web: www.VOTalent.com/flash

Good luck,

Travis
VoiceOver Guy and Entertainment Technology Enthusiast
[www.VOTalent.com]

great i sent the post to my developer (minus the knock).
i am really trying to understand this because i am being forced by client demand to update my web site. i appreciate your help and would gladly pay a consulting fee for it. i know i have asked you quite a few questions on this.

i have created a swf file b4. its a kinda skippy version of the encoded .mov ( skippier than the flv) is this the type of swf i am needing?

if so, my question is once this skippy version of the file is associated with the flv will i be able to go into my server and replace that file with a new version that still carries the same name but is completely different footage.

i.e..
b4 with the h264 files could load a file say ' ride4.mov ' to my server and watch it via browser. then because of my lack of web building software i could create a new movie with new footage then name it ' ride4.mov ' go to my server rename that file that was already there something like ' ride4aug.mov '. then i could upload the new ' ride4.mov ' and i would be able to view the new mov.
can this process be done with the flv file?

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

oh geez guys, ths is starting to make my brain bleed. we're making this WAY more difficult that it needs to be.

first of all - travis, thats actually not accurate. the flv/swf thing is more or less an either/or situation and it all depends on how youre building your page. if corbett wants standalone "drop on server" viewing, he needs a swf. if he or his "developer" is embedding them on a page then its the flv he needs. you DONT need both.

here is a clip that i just shot out of On2pro. just selected flash 8 swf as the output and DONE.

[understandinc.com]

Hi Jeff.

1) I'm not a pro web/video guy... I'm just a voiceover talent who likes to play with cool new toys and technology. - I'm happy to share my limited experience with clients, friends, etc. - we've all been forced into this side of the digital divide and we're all bumbling around trying to figure out how to get around over here. I'm happy to contribute what I can here 'cause an awful lot of video people have suddenly found themselves to need to be Web people too.

2) If I understand you correctly, yes, if you replace a file on the net (or a Flash .flv file) with another one of the same name, the new one will play instead of the old one. In the case of Flash .flv files, you'll want to make sure the new one has the same video characteristics (screen size, aspect ratio, etc.) or there will probably be problems.

3) To everyone on this Forum: If you're getting serious about putting video on the Web, you really, really need to learn the Web basics. Even if you're paying pro Web or Flash developers, you gotta' know the basics in order to communicate with your developers, or to keep from getting hosed. (HTML for dummies is a good start.) Set up your own experimental web site or MySpace page and start messing around. Now that YouTube, Google video, etc. has gotten so much attention EVERYONE's going to be asking you to get video up on the Web. Today, about half of the narration work I do goes straight to the Web.

Travis
VoiceOver Guy and Entertainment Technology Enthusiast
[www.VOTalent.com]

Great thread guys. Just a heads up. Philip Hodgetts and myself are speaking to Bill Joll, CEO of On2 tonight at 6:00PM PST as part of the Digital Production Buzz pod cast. You can call in or join the chat and ask questions if you feel the urge.

[www.digitalproductionbuzz.com]

Michael Horton
-------------------

here is a side by side demo of h264 and swf. each is a simple "drag to the server and play" situation. - WELL, kind of... i allowed the On2pro app to generate an html page in order to keep the movie from playing full screen (but thats a simple check button in On2).

SWF:
[understandinc.com]

H264:
[understandinc.com]

each movie is the same res, 511x287.
clearly the h264 looks WAY better, but its also 3x the file size

keep in mind that NO crafting has been done to the compression quality. its simply using a default setting in quicktime and On2.

oh, here are the final file sizes:

SWF: 2.9megs
H264: 11 megs

Yeah wayne the swf files are of a lesser quality. sorta takes away the good cam work, quality of footage, and editing you did to create the story. clients dont understand that it is the compression that it taking away from quality.

h264 is the best quality you can post to the web it is just not universal enough to reach even 85% of pc users. and pcs still are the most used.

i wish there was a way of improving the quality of the flv/swf file. there are a lot of artifacts.

meanwhile, i have gotten a playable swf file the quality is at least a 35 - 45%% drop from my h264.mov i got from fcp and qt7.

encoded with flix pro demo /vp62 set to best quality/ 30 (not29.97)fps/ 2pass
www.creekcitytv.com/Ride4web.swf

i did not use the option that stops it from being full screen

i am still wondering if adobe flash 8 would gine me better quality.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

letting flix generate the html page will confine it to set size. or of course building your page with dreamweaver will give you a bit more control.

if you dont know flash, having the flash application wont help you at all - AND even if you do know it, its not going to have any effect on the quality of the movie. i do reccomend that anyone who seriously wants to get into web presentation have and know dreamweaver and flash (but thats another thread). the quality hits youre seeing are simply because neither of us is compression experts. you can go into On2 and jack with various settings to improve the final quality. i have found that the default 512 and 1k settings in On2 result in far better results than what ive shown here.

my movie was scaled to 511 with and kept at a moderate data rate, just to provide a counterpoint to the 511 wide h264.

online video delivery requires that you often "educate" your clients on expectations. if they are unable or unwilling to upgrade or update their players or their bandwidth, then they have to accept that there will be some degree of quality hit. its kind of like that tired ass old cliche "fast, good or cheap - pick 2" kind of applies here as it does in other businesses...

Here's a re-postig of some experiments I did with .wmv .mp4 and Flash 8. They have been deliberately over-sized to show the different kinds of artifacting you get with each of the formats.

www.hd-vo/stream

.swf video files are not nearly as good, in terms of compression, ash Flash 7 .vlf . Flash 7 .vlf files are not nearly as good as Flash 8.

Travis
VoiceOver Guy and Entertainment Technology Enthusiast
[www.VOTalent.com]

Jeff, in the company area, under the feedback heading is a contact form that you can use without being a registered owner. Did you find that and try a question there?

If you change the pop-up menu from Flix to Sales you don't have to be a registered owner to ask a question of the sales people.

HTH

Philip

[worldtv] has a blog entry about the developments in Flash and what some people are doing to try and improve picture quality. The comments of that post link to some other experiments.

ak

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!