Inadvertently got tangled up (in maybe) so much nesting that it is starting to corrupt and slowdown my almost finished project.

PmacG4, OSX, Dual-1.25Gb RAM, FCP3, 4-hds, 2-120Gbs, 149Gb, 233Gb, learning computer editing.

I am an artist, unfortunately not a computer person, trying to learn off the books, to work on a computer editing program, so am pretty sure I am doing things maybe off the ?normal? map, not that is any excuse. There is not an FCP learning place near here.

I have been editing a 4 yr project that is finally looking pretty good, and on playback, now find it is now seemingly wanting to cut some itself. Previously cut sequences now have video that I didn?t put there. Or in other cases have static, or off-line, where coherent edited sound used to be. Would like to be able to save and use what work is left.

I noticed my media drive (120Gb) was filling up, and had installed 2 more new drives, the 149 and 233, where all new saving was to be manually directed. But, still the media 120 GB got into the KBs before I noticed it again, apparently with auto saves. So I know I need to fix or change that. Tried to get this clear number up by deleting some of those, which it did, but not enough. Haven?t had time to re-check these yet.

So, not sure what to do next. Possibly need to get the media drive down in size to 15% clear. Most of what is left on this is my original ?dailies?, could those be transferred to one of the larger new drives without losing the links?

And since I have been cutting this ?by distillation? as I, as a film person, know, is there any way I can save copies of my original honed recuts, or what is left of them, without further confusing this computer? Should I be adding another new project if the computer is already getting confused with how I am working? Tried to save some new, fixed sequences as new projects, but this seems to take a lot of time.

This computer has been taking ever longer to come up to FCP, earlier noticed at 7 min, last now 15. Possibly need to ?trash my prefs?, but what to do first, the prefs or resize the media drive? Have also been told by computer people, maybe to defrag, but having run the utilities and cd Apple provided, was told it didn?t seem to take the time to really defrag but only to check the memory, which was then pronounced to be ok.

It shuts down very quickly, if that means anything.
This project is 16-17 sequences to make an hour. I have been told that I should have been working at the shorter sequence levels and not in the hour timelines. If so, would appreciate some tips on the method (not made clear to me) of still being able to find the total hour length, and how to achieve this, as cannot find anything like this method or direction in the books.

You people have generously helped me in the past, hope you can help clear this up now, thanks! You are much appreciated!

PmacG4, OSX, Dual-1.25Gb RAM This doesn't tell us how much RAM you have just how fast your G4 chips are. We need to know your RAM/memory quantity.

You probably have a few issues dogging you right now.

It sounds like you have an overfull media drive. If you have anything that isn't media on this drive (FCP projects, Photoshop, Aftereffects, Autosave vault) move them off. If that isn't much you will need to move media to get it down to 15% empty. Moving media in the finder will depend on how well organized your capture scratch is and how well you named your clips when you captured them.

It also sounds like you have a large project if it takes you 15 minutes to open one. Is it bigger than 200MB? To get this down I suggest saving a copy of the project to a drive with plenty of space. Delete everything out of this copy of the project except for your working sequences. Resave as projectnamehereSEQ or something like that. Reopen the original project, delete the sequences and save a copy as projectnamehereSOURCES. You'll have to split the project up like that to get the project file size down under 150MB at least.

I've found that when working on a rough cut that is overlong it's best to keep the sequence split up into chunks but project size gets smaller if you combine the segments into one sequence once you get close to your target duration and keep only that sequence in the project.

You can save your work by saving copies of your project at the end of a day with that days date on it. Next day you open the previous dates project, save as todays date and work. Your current project that has only sequences gets smaller as you approach your target duration and your sources project stays the same if you aren't capturing new footage.

Order of Business.
1) Free up space on your media drive
2) Get your project size down
3) Trash preferences
4) reboot
5) Repair and Assess problem sequences

Read up on how to move your autosave off your media drive. It's a System Setting.

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!

Actually, I don't think the G4s could take four internal drives, could they? Could you have a partitioned drive filling up that is on the same drive as your system?

Also, in another post you said you have dual 1.25gigs of ram. Did you mean you've got a dual 1.25gig processor, or 2.5 gigs of ram?

Defintely do the things that Andrew suggests, but you also find out the specs of your machine - there's something not right it.

you definitely need to reduce the sizer of your project files
(you dont say how big they are, but they're too big!)

i work in a slightly different way to andrew.

i like to keep all my rushes,
plus one full copy of the latest cut.

i keep the project file down by ditching old sequences.
well, i don't just throw them away.
after what i call " landmark", or "milestone" versions,
which would be a certain screening copy
i copy the project, and date it, and enter details of the screening., or whatever in the project files. "comments" window in the finder.
i then move on.
if i need to refer back to a certain version it;ll be one that we all remember because we all saw it with a certain person, or we remember the reaction we got when we screened it at a certain venue, or whatever.

if you have thousands of clips, or more to the point SUB-clips then your project file could get so large you need to break it up further than what i have suggested.
however i have found this method pretty good system for 2 moderately large projects.

on both of those, however, in the final stages i found it best to peel off the rushes, or source media, from the sequences.

i think half a day spent organising your projects will really pay off in increased productivity.

--------------------------------------

oh, yeah...
nesting!
in your subjuect line, but no details in the post
that'll up your project file size, for sure.

try to untangle those.
you dont need them.
you're right to work in smaller sequences.
i try to stick to around 20 mins,
(on the last film i had one seq at 30, followed by one at 10.
i just kind of fell into that, and it stayed that way for quite some time.
not too much problem,
but the 30 did take a bit longer to open.)

as i say, smaller sequences are fine,
but there's no need to nest them into one big one and work on that.
that'll add to your file size.

if you need a bit of context for when you move from seq to seq,
you can pad out the hd and tail with bits from the other sequences,
but that gets messy.
i know, that;s how i did the last picture
messy, but not un-workable..

maybe the best way to work is to change the sequence structure every now & then
(shift where one ends, and the next begins)
so you get run-ons of different sequences while you work.
still, i work a lot by having screenings, so i do get to see it flow quite a lot.


good luck with the project,
nick

> maybe the best way to work is to change the sequence structure every now & then
> (shift where one ends, and the next begins)
> so you get run-ons of different sequences while you work.

The way I deal with multiple shorter sequences (I tend to keep my sequences at 10-15 minutes) is to have a straight cut across all tracks always be the beginning and end of each sequence. Then, if I need to gauge the cuts at the beginning or end, I *temporarily* drag in the sequence that precedes or follows the part I'm editing, as a nested clip. Once I've locked down on the editing decisions there, I *erase the nested clip*.

On a long project, cleanups are very important. For example, do you have subclips, graphics or music files from eight cuts ago? Do you have 12 alternate versions of your edits from the last six months? Do you *really* need them in your current project in active status? You can always re-import or even re-copy/paste something you delete from your project file, as long as you have a good backup system.

I'm generally very thrifty about keeping alternate versions. I tend to only keep one set of sequences for the film. Instead of using multiple sequences to keep alternate/older versions, I use dated, archived project files where possible.


www.derekmok.com

Wow! Thanks all! You have given me a lot to study.

Sorry about the memory missthink, looked up my invoice and it has 2.0 GB RAM.
Also has 4 internal hds, 2-120GB on the 100 speed circuits, and a 160GB, and 250Gb on the 66 speed circuits (I added the last two). None of the drives is partitioned.

Guess I'm really hesitant throwing stuff away, too many times crawling on edit room floor looking for a missing frame.

Haven't added up all the files yet, but because auto save was set at 10 mb's default, came real close to filling up the media 120GB before it was noticed.

As far as I know, there is no media on the system disc.

There are no rendered clips or other effects on this, it is all cuts only.

I had help trying to test hard drive media surfaces for degradation and defragmentation (optimization). Ran Utilities>Repair and the hardware test CD but it only appeared to have checked for hard drive file structure and the like and did not seem to take the time necessary to defragment the hard drive or test the hard drive surface media. Does OS X 0.2(?) require periodic defragging especially with the large 60 minute timeline (300MB(?)) files I work with?

I was told 'trashing permissions' might help me. It appears that 'permissions' can be 'locked'. What changes permissions if they are not locked? Do I want to 'lock' permissions so they don't change? If so, what am I losing by doing this?

I will think about replying with my manner of working, but off the top, was just trying to get some of my 'need most work' sequences, audio cleaning, and pix fixed in 1 project, and the other sequences that needed a less work left in the older project, and was bringing them all together in a 3rd project that would have been all cleaned up for submitting. This is when it started slowing down and corrupting.

Hope I answered all, thanks again.

Did I answer in the wrong place to get put in the middle? If so, here it is again.

Wow! Thanks all! You have given me a lot to study.

Sorry about the memory missthink, looked up my invoice and it has 2.0 GB RAM.
Also has 4 internal hds, 2-120GB on the 100 speed circuits, and a 160GB, and 250Gb on the 66 speed circuits (I added the last two). None of the drives is partitioned.

Guess I'm really hesitant throwing stuff away, too many times crawling on edit room floor looking for a missing frame.

Haven't added up all the files yet, but because auto save was set at 10 mb's default, came real close to filling up the media 120GB before it was noticed.

As far as I know, there is no media on the system disc.

There are no rendered clips or other effects on this, it is all cuts only.

I had help trying to test hard drive media surfaces for degradation and defragmentation (optimization). Ran Utilities>Repair and the hardware test CD but it only appeared to have checked for hard drive file structure and the like and did not seem to take the time necessary to defragment the hard drive or test the hard drive surface media. Does OS X 0.2(?) require periodic defragging especially with the large 60 minute timeline (300MB(?)) files I work with?

I was told 'trashing permissions' might help me. It appears that 'permissions' can be 'locked'. What changes permissions if they are not locked? Do I want to 'lock' permissions so they don't change? If so, what am I losing by doing this?

I will think about replying with my manner of working, but off the top, was just trying to get some of my 'need most work' sequences, audio cleaning, and pix fixed in 1 project, and the other sequences that needed a less work left in the older project, and was bringing them all together in a 3rd project that would have been all cleaned up for submitting. This is when it started slowing down and corrupting.

Hope I answered all, thanks again.

What model exactly is your G4? When did you buy it and what does it look like? Some models are not supported with extra drives on the same bus as the CD/DVD. You could put them there but apple wouldn't support it. I have one of those, a Quicksilver2002 and I was able to get a drive working on the second bus but it made burning disks flakey.

Have you made any progress on this list?
Order of Business.
1) Free up space on your media drive
2) Get your project size down
3) Trash preferences
4) reboot
5) Repair and Assess problem sequences

because auto save was set at 10 mb's default
What does this mean? Autosave options are frequency of saves and number of copies.
First you want to make sure that you have a working version of your project because sometimes the solution to a corruption is to go back through the autosaves and find where it shows up and start from there. Burn your autosave folder to a CD and delete it from the firewire drive.


You don't trash permissions you repair them. Disk Utility in your Utilities Folder. You can only repair permissions on the system drive. Same utility you used to check the file structure of your disks.

Fragmentation is not an issue in OS X. The OS takes care of that in day to day activities.
What you might consider is Disk Warrior. It rebuilds the disk index of drives and has come in handy for many here.

If you are going to move media from drive to drive you can do it using the media tool or by moving the files yourself in the Finder. As I said before it all depends on how well your files were named when you captured them and how organized you are. Relinking to a folder full of files called untitled-1, untitled-2 etc is not going to be fun.

What is the total amount, in Gigs, of media you need for this project?

ak

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!

Thank you for your interest in my problems. This is just a 'directors' cut.

My G4 is a power MAC ZO5N, (off the invoice) tower, purchased in very late dec2002. I purchased it directly from Apple where I told them this machine was only for film editing and needed the most of whatever that needed at that time. An Apple person I know here referred to it as a "mirrored front" unit. Is that a MDD? Apple studio/genius desk had my tower there and said it would support 2 more new internal drives. When my new larger hard drives were added to the originals, the 2 CD/DVD drives were not disturbed from their bus connections. Was told at Apple, the ultra ATA100 and ATA66, the drives wouldn't make any speed/time difference. The new ones are on the 66 and haven't attempted a dvd burn off them yet. It had 6 cable connectors inside, 2-66s were unused, now used.

Not sure of gigs translation, but have been trying to cut an hour-long documentary and looking for 56:40, all attempts are slightly over, like 1:06 min. Does this help? I have near or over 330 min of original film captured on the media 120GB. It is somewhat specific labeled as to what it is according to film rolls and various locations.

I respect your working list, and have yet to do anything there, as still working through trying to understand the computer speak and do this 'fix' correctly.

Every time I tried to check an autosaved dated version it took over 7 min to open and come up.

My electronic engineer/pc brother (here on vacation and to help try to fix this) helped me run the utilities and Apple CD disc, all came back pronounced computer ok.

Have never thought to let the computer run all weekend, have been shutting it down as I quit, is this wrong?

Do not have any drives on the firewire, all that is there is the Formac A/D. Can I attempt a regular cd instead?

The 'scratch disk preferences' had the default set at 10MB (MB unchangeable) limiting the amount of autosave space before saving to next hard drive. Brother suggested changing it to 18,000mb to achieve 15% free of media 120GB.

If I'm lucky enough to get through all these fixes, this is what I'm thinking, correct me if I am wrong here.

Open a new project. Then make 18 new sequences, 1 for each sequence that I need, and edit these individual sequences, and put them in order into a realization final sequence timeline of what would be the whole project. Would this be a correct interpretation of how to work without causing this computer confusion?

I managed to move autosave vault to another drive, and still need to move more media to make that 15% clear. That looks to be some of my dailies, is it ok to have source on 2 different drives?

I was also hoping some of my answers to ak would clarify this trouble-shooting.
Thank you.

> is it ok to have source on 2 different drives?

Sure. Make sure the drives are properly formatted, have the correct interface, and are of a reliable brand and make. Don't chain more than three drives together on an active editing project, though. That's when it gets risky.


www.derekmok.com

Have taken my g4 tower to Apple genius/hardware, on the advice of my EE/pc brother who was here and he pried from them how to force start the ?SUDO? periodic, daily, weekly, monthly tests. He was really worried about what he thought was; my disk defragmentation regarding possibly problems I am currently facing.

What does anyone know about this?

That series of tests only seems to happen while the Apple is on in whatever wee hours of their, Apple?s morning, when my Apple is probably not on, maybe has never has been on for 4 years, because I only use it when I am editing. Have been editing late though.

Haven?t gotten too far into reusing it in editing, as I am still trying to clean it up per LAFCPUG?s advice, but it really appears now to bring up the sluggish FCP files a whole lot quicker now in re-checking some saved edited stuff.

What should I know about more of this?

Was never aware this test even existed, and does Apple expect everyone to leave computers on over night to do disk and computer maintenance and then not tell me to leave it on?

They also mentioned Prosoft Drive Genius, (bro was impressed w/this) and Data Restore II and said Disk Warrior has destroyed stuff, who to believe here?

Thank you all

What should I know about more of this?

Accept the fact that your life as an artist is now over. You are now both an artist and a computer technician. The sooner you learn that, the better your life will be.

The first Tech Class for Macs will set you free. Spin that propellor beanie. Do not fear the geek within.

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