Graceful Intermediate HiDef Codec

The client supplied us with 1080 29.97 animation frames. They're stunning, but the 6 min Short is 85G worth of storage. We need to go from here to Everything Else (literally, NTSC DVD, Every Streaming Known To Man, PC, Mac, etc.)

The problem, of course, is every export format takes four hours because we need to assemble the numbered frames into a movie each time.

What's a good HiDef format in the middle? We had troubles because of an unfortuante earlier MPEG4 compression job that created damage, so everybody's gun shy now. Not having a format in the middle also means we can't conveniently apply corrections. There's no movie there to apply them to.

I will say that if you wait out the process, you can make a killer NTSC DVD from those frames.

Koz

Can you combine the frames into a self-contained QT movie and still retain the quality? I'm assuming you're asking a question and not providing a codec?

The QT movie is bound to be less than 85 GB. For a 6 min. movie it will probably be about 2 GBs, even at best quality settings.

Let me flesh this out a little. I opened all these files in Quickitime Pro using Open File Sequence. I married the AIFF sound track and now I'm ready to go....where? There is a long list of export flavors open to me.

What I'm looking for is the HiDef version of PhotoJPEG MOV. Modestly compressed, little or no visible damage and openable by every Mac made in the last six years.. I'm doing all this on a Tiger machine with QTP7 and Final Cut 5, but I expect to do some of this work on a Panther/QT6/FCP4.5 machine. They can't turn up their nose at whatever file format I/we choose. I believe this lets out the more exotic formats like H.264 and MPEG4.

I'm also going to blow this over to one of the client companies and they need to open it up on all their Macs. One of our problems is the inability to actually play the show until the DVD gets burned. One clip in one scene turned out to be out of order in the fileset. Surprise!

We have already imported the huge pile of files on the Panther machine and burned an NTSC DVD from the result. It was terrific, but it took four hours. This on a machine that's busy from 9:01 a.m. until sometimes 8 p.m.

We've been experiencing first hand how to create garbage, many hours of processing time, and great inconvenience in this process, I was wondering if there was a way to avoid that step.

Koz

Koz, I was wondering whether it took four hours to do the whole six-minute piece? Or did you guys try the option of doing a sample -- say 10 seconds -- to judge the quality? Did the client have to see all six minutes at every experimental step? Also, would it have been possible/feasible to split up the final product, say six one-minute chunks? It seems to me sometimes it takes less time to spit out six one-minute chunks than one six-minute chunk, if you're dealing with huge file sizes. Less chance of crashing, corruptions, freezes etc.


www.derekmok.com

<<<crashing, corruptions, freezes >>>

Against all odds, we never had a crash or actual problems that weren't caused by bookkeeping errors, including that one File Set to multiple-pass MPEG4 I left running all night. That actually worked, but I made a stupid error and it wasn't usable.

The shows will get longer so no, six one minute captures is not going to work. Also, I need one file to apply color corrections and other minor work. That's another problem we have now. Can you make the show a little brighter?

No, we can't.

The six minute show *is* the small sample. This is the shrunken, abbreviated show that the salespeople are going to shop around. Shrinking it again will not be welcome. We don't mind cranking through a massive export if at the end we have a good workfile that plays in real time and supports at least one generation of color correction without turning to peanut butter.

This is starting to get scary. I was expecting somebody to post that I was being silly and of course I needed to use the DVC_Amateur_32 HiDef file format in the middle and all my troubles will be over. Or is this like everything else in HiDef? Lots of nasty surprises none of which the client is willing to pay for.

Koz

What file format are the animation frames? What resolution (SD, HD, 2k, 4k?).

Meantime, rather than use the QT Player to open an image sequence, import the folder with the indivdual frames into FCP with still frame duration set at 1 frame. Set preferences to still duration 1 frame prior to import. Select all the frames and drag them into a 10Bit uncompressed sequence, and play out to file to create a QT master. In FCP you'd also then have the ability to adjust any frames out of sequence in the timeline, or do color correcting/filtering, edit audio, or playout to whatever codec you need. Should look perfect in h.264.

That help?

Clay

My suggestion would be don't compress it. If its six minutes long then its pretty managable. Open it into QTPro and save the image sequence as uncompressed 10bit - you can then do whatever you want to however many times you like with the one file!

<<<What file format are the animation frames? What resolution (SD, HD, 2k, 4k?). >>>

<<<The client supplied us with 1080 29.97 animation frames.>>>

Progressive. We're making it interlaced in the DVD tools.

<<<My suggestion would be don't compress it.>>>

Isn't a 10-bit file actually going to be *bigger* than 85G....

Sorry. I gotta go. LA is having crusher power problems and I'm on dialup in my offfice in the dark.

Back shortly...I hope.

Koz

Back. We hired a free-lance rabbit to race on a generator belt until Department of Water and Power comes back on line.

I'm taking a several second chunk of the frames and trying the Export at 10-bit route. Remember one of the requirements of this process is that we can shufle it back and forth between different verson Macs.

That's what scares me about the straight "QuickTime" export. We've had those not shuffle very well.

More as we go.

Koz

6 Mins of 10Bit 1080 at 29.97 should be about 60GB.

You of course need a drive that's fast enough to play uncompressed HD to be able to view it.

I still think that you're best off importing the frames into FCP and dropping them into a 10 Bit uncompressed 1080 timeline. That way, you can then quickly identify any frames that have gone out of sequential order and easily fix things. You can also then export small chunks, apply frame blending to interalce, or do any other editing, tweaking etc. as may be required. Play out to 10Bit uncompressed 1920x1080 for a master. Make DVD's from that and things should be picture perfect. Been there, done that. Works great here.

Clay

<<<6 Mins of 10Bit 1080 at 29.97 should be about 60GB. >>>

It turns out to be over 8 min and 85G. 6 min is the actual show without intro, logos and credits.

<<<10 Bit uncompressed 1080 timeline.>>>

That may be the desparation method. Chief among those problems is there's no machine in the building that will play it.

We made up a PhotoJPEG at "Good" quality and that gave us a compressed file that looks pretty much perfect (no grading color rainbows or gritty edges) at a filesize of 3.5G. It plays in real time on all our machines. The show is almost a cartoon, so it compresses easily.

We're in the DVD Burn stage right now and we still have sound sync issues, so we don't have a pipeline yet. We haven't tried to do Post yet, either.

This show gives me the shopping list. Let's see. Fast drives, Intel Tower, etc. etc. etc.

Thanks,

Koz