how should I shoot a sunrise?

Aloha,
I'm planning on a sunrise shoot at the top of Mauna Kea. I'm
using the HVR-Z1U, HDV, 16X9. I'm looking for some tips on how to
get the best shot possible. I plan to roll from dark--pre-sunrise
and burn an hour reel. Do you have any suggestions? Should I use
the built-in ND filter (1 or 2), or should I use my Schneider
polarizer, or should I just roll and not use anything? I've done
this before and wasn't happy with the results. Any help would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Chris Rust

I have a Z1 camera, but I've not shot any sunrises with it. I've shot a few sunrises with 35mm and 16mm cameras though, and you can probably use similar techniques.

You should put the lens aperture on manual and close it down as much as possible. I don't know what the f stop is on the Z1 to tell you the truth, but put it on its lowest aperture. In 35mm I put the lenses on f/22.

If the sun is going to rise from behind the mountain, frame the shot so you can see the edge of the mountain where the light will spill over.

What looks best is going from almost pitch black to a star burst when the sun's tip breaks over the edge. I'm getting excited just thinking of it :-)

You should be on medium long shot of the mountain or of the area where the sun will shine. In 35mm I'd put the 50mm lens on.

If it's a mountain shot, then before the sun spills over, I'd get some long pans of the edges of the mountain, real tight close shots. Watch the opening of Fiddler on the Roof -- a gorgeous sunrise.

If there are puddles of water, get some shots off of them when the sun is out and throwing long shadows. It's magic hour, so shoot as many types of shots as you can think of. Do a lot of back lighting, etc.

Good luck.

Here's an "out of the box" suggestion. Do you have a digital still camera like the Canon EOS? If so, you can use the still camera to create great "Timelapse" sequences. Here's the best part... the resolution of the still camera is WAY better than 2K film! And, 'cause there's so few frames, it's quite easy to deal with in post. There's been plenty of "how to's" about this on the web. Hint, you need a good tripod and a remote control trigger release. Do a google search.

I got tired of processing the hours of "timelapse" footage required for these shots, and so I showed some of the DP's on the shows we do this trick and they loved it. Works great for "night travelling" POV shots too.

Mark

I second the comment on the digital SLR (my rebel does great on this), but it's my understanding that any Canon (and perhaps other manufacturers) camera will do this with a USB cable and a laptop. Also, it's really cool to have that extra resolution, and be able to tilt, pan, and zoom during the timelapse (in post).

If you use the Z1U, go out the day before and set the camera at the time you want your sunset to end. Set up a well exposed shot. Note where the iris is set, and get a good white balance that makes the most of the colors. Then when you go back for the real deal, just use your stored WB and iris (even though it will be completely dark), and you're in business.

-MW

I notice nobody touched the exposure issue other than f22. Certainly at the end you will be shooting into the sun in the daytime, but all the rest of the time, you're gliding through golden hour (the one nobody ever sees) and dawn. That's an impressive number of stops and on film, you can fudge that in post because negative film has a built-in 3:1 compression as well as an extreme exposure latitude. Video just isn't going to do that.

Still cameras might. Those using the still camera, did you leave the exposure on Auto?

When you did this the first time, what sucked?

Does your camera have "lens balls" when you shoot something bright? It's called "lens flare," but it's not. Those are going to be in the shot and they're going to move.

Another thing nobody touched on is damage. Our security cameras have very nice sun trails burned into them......

Koz

Yes use an SLR.
@#$%& 8-HDV will only cause banding across the sky making it look cheap.

If you can get a hold of a 10bit camera use that instead.
The picture quality will be much higher going with the SLR option but you will get a smoother timelapse with the film/video camera.

The best way to explain why is that when you timelapse a 2 hour clip into a lets say 10 second clip you blend all the images together to one smooth sequence.
(All the frames are used, not just every 50th frame or so. At least this is how Avid works. I am only assuming that FCP works the same. Anyone else know more about this?)

When using the SLR you would get the equivalent result of just taking every 50th frame (Or another number depending on speed) if you shoot one image every 2 seconds.
This will give the timelapse higher picture quality but less smoothness.

Alternatively take many times more stills with the SLR than you are going to use to get a similar result.

Johan Polhem
Motion Graphics
www.johanpolhem.com

DSLR timelapse works great. Triggering it through a laptop at pre-set intervals will give you dead smooth motion. Nikon Capture does this nicely. A ?Gotcha? will be iris fluctuations. Only cure I know is to use a lens that lets you physically, by hand, set your iris by rotating the ring on your lens. Electro-mechanical settings (setting your F stop through your camera in any way, shape or form) can (and often will) fluctuate by up to 1/3 of a stop. PITA.

A good starting point for exposure is to pick a point slightly off-axis from the sun coming over the horizon (maybe an outstretched hands breadth away if there?s any slight cloudiness (gunk in the sky can be your friend) maybe a couple if the sky?s crystal clear. Call that medium gray, and expose properly for that. Your pre-dawn exposure will probably be darker than it could be, but it?ll still be pretty as the sun edges towards rising. Post sunrise should be OK. Changing your exposure during the shot is a tricky business to hide.

Make sure your lens surfaces are spotless (any speck of dirt will flare, zooms don?t even need the speck of dirt) and DO NOT look through any optical path viewer at the sun! (Video viewfinders of any flavour are fine. DSLRs are not. (They use mirrors)

Shooting some tests- even at home- will be Good Thing. Variables will change when you travel, but not all that much?

Have fun! (the top of Manu Kea, how can you not?)

randy

Aloha Randy,
Thanks for your suggestions. A couple of questions though... Since my Nikon D200 has its own time-lapse settings, why would I want to trigger through Capture on my laptop? Second, what frame rate would you suggest?

Thanks,
Chris Rust

I got a D70s- which doesn't do time lapse natively, so laptop or not is your call. ( I was also shooting 6-7 hour, 1200 frame shots, so a laptop was great because it all went straight to the drive.) I would imagine a 200 will give you lovely material to work with. Shooting RAW is great because you can really dig into the shadows to pull out detail if you have to. Big frames, though, and lotsa data.

As for intervals, I've shot a lot of shadows, and they move very nicely at ten second intervals, so I'm thinking that might work for sunrise, too. That'll give you ballpark 14 seconds of footage per hour of shooting.

If you've got one of the DX lenses (with no aperture ring) you probably will have trouble with iris fluctations. The one s with manual rings are much better. The trick is in physically mounting them to the camera. Do a search for "I'm looking for a free (or low cost) DeFlicker plugins (deflick luminosity variations)" to see discussion and some solutions.

randy

You understand you don't have to go to Hawai'i to shoot the sunrise, right? You can shoot it from West Harpersfield, New York and do just as good a job. At those exposures, you won't be able to tell the difference between Mt. Utsayantha and Mauna Kea--or Loa for that matter, although the smoke and lava might get in the way there.

Koz

This is unbelievable -- so many great ideas ... time lapse even -- with stills cameras. I learned so much.

But, Chris, you said you had a Z1 camera and you want to film the sunrise at Mauna Kea. Koz is right, if you just want to film a sunrise you don't have to go anywhere. In fact I'm sure someone can tell you how to create it in FCP Studio. LOL

Remember you have a Zeiss lens on your Z1 and that lens is the best. Your sunrise shoot will be spectacular if you work hard from before the sun rises and get all the shots you can conjure up. Also after the sun comes out there's very little to shoot. Aside from the long shadows you might as well go out at 10 AM.

Your best shooting is going to be one hour before the sun comes out and 5 minutes after it's out.

Since you have the Z1 camera, use it. And if you have a stills camera, set that up also and follow the advice you're reading here.

I'd love to see the footage you'll get with the Z1 though. It's not everyone who can go to Mauna Kea and shoot a sunrise.

I'd appreciate it very much if you'd consider letting me have a copy of the HDV you shoot that morning :-)

<<<time lapse even >>>

Of course. A friend of mine billions of years ago did a time-laps movie--with a movie camera, thankyouverymuch--around the Capitol Beltway in Washington DC. He was a Starving Student, so he got his girlfriend to push the trigger every so many seconds.

I'm not a woman, but I would be delighted to push that button periodically for you in Hawai'i. Just, you know, let me know when you're leaving and when the flights are so I can pack my shorts and flip-flops.

Koz

LOL,
Of course I could at least create a sunrise in Motion, but I like to do things the hard way. Shorts and flip flops won't cut it at Mauna Kea--at 14000' it's a bit chilly, even in March. The reason for shooting up there is because you get a great view of the earth's curvature and a sunrise from above the clouds is awesome! Wish me luck. I'll be shooting with two Z1s and a Nikon D200--what's a few pounds at 30% O2?

thanks all,
chris rust

They recommend arctic parkas at the summit.

I couldn't resist. Here's sunset at Mauna Kea. The first picture is of the mountain's shadow at sunset, which may be where you'll be standing for your sunrise. The second is the sunset is just for fun.

Sunrise might be easier to shoot. There's a lot of stuff in the way for sunset, what with all the observatories and telescopes and whatnot. They make getting a nice sunset shot a little tricksy. Oh, yeah, and there were lots of people milling around up there, too. If sunrise is as popular as sunset, you might want to consider seeing if you can rope off a small area.

We were cold up there, and we have real winters where we're from! Bring a hat and gloves, too!

deb

Wow! I wanna go too!

randy