Edit to Tape is not showing up on tape playback and getting dropped frames.

Hello again friends.

I hit ctrl M, set up everything then start editing to tape, and I get the dialogue that it has been aborted due to dropped frames. When I click the do not show this again box off it doesn't abort, but still I believe the frames may be dropping. Why?

During Edit, there is a black frame around the movie. Is this normal? Like I am seeing it through a window of black.

The bigger problem is when I go to play the tape after, there is nothing on the tape. I don't think anything was actually printed to the tape, even though it went through the entire process as if it did.

I am using a mini DV Panasonic camera to edit to tape. I have the camera set to VCR.

If there is any help you can give me I would greatly appreciate it. I am 100% stumped!!
Thanks.

Is the camera supposed to be in VCR mode or Camera mode? Am I supposed to hit the record button?

VTR mode. Hit record on cam then wait a few seconds and play the timeline. Set your in and out points on your timeline first and make sure all is rendered and in safe mode.

Michael Horton
-------------------

Oh man I am so flustered. I don't know what you mean. Sorry. Timeline? You hit ctrl M and then ok and it goes automatically.

I thought it was preferences so I trashed preferences. Now the tape of the camera won't even move, but it does in capture mode. If I put the camera in VCR mode, the record button doesn't do anything. Seriously, this is weird.

Now the tape is working, but I get the dropped frame dialogue box. Why? does anyone know why?

Turned off Mirror on Desktop, trashed preferences, even prayed to the gods. Still getting dropped frames. Anyone?
Will gladly reward you with a cold beer if you can help.

Thanks.

>>Now the tape of the camera won't even move<<

Do you mean that if you try to play the tape, it won't move? This sounds like a problem with your camera. There are a couple of other problems going on in there too, but first, get a fresh tape. Put it in your camera. Press play. Will it play OK?

If so, press record on the camera, then, in FCP just press the play button as if you were just waching your timeline like you do when you edit. . Let it run for a minute or so. Then stop the playback, and the record on the camera. Did anything get recorded?

I fiddled with lots of stuff. The camera is now recording. But why am I getting the dropped frame abort? I trashed preferences, I turned off mirror on desktop, everything is rendered, its on Safe RT...

If only Final cut could talk.

The general advice here is *NOT* to hit Control - M (PRINT TO VIDEO-- not "edit to tape" because there's a lot of overhead in preparing the output which you probably don't need. Michael and Jude are advising a "crash edit" which merely involves

a) checking to see that all effects are rendered in the timeline, *including* greenline "realtime" effects-- Option-R will render those by default assuming the choice hasn't been changed under the Sequence> Render menu.

b) set your camera with fresh tape into VCR mode. (Check to see that the tape cassette is not write-protected!)

c) Start Record.

d) Activate your Timeline sequence window, press HOME to start at the head. Press the spacebar.

That should do it.

If you still get Dropped Frame warnings try disabling the warning in your User Prefs dialog. See how it looks when you play back the tape. FCP could be reacting to some dicey timecode.

Report back!

- Loren
Today's FCP 4 / 5 keytip:
Set a multi-parameter Motion FX Keyframe with Control K !

The FCP KeyGuide?: your power placemat.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

Did you perform an Audio Mixdown (OPTION-APPLE-R) before attempting the tape output?


www.derekmok.com

My camera will not record on VCR mode. So that is out of the question. I don't know why. It just won't. It only records on camera mode. Audio mix down? I always mix down the audio manually. I am curious what option-cmd-R does... Well just did it and nothing is different.

Now with mirror on desktop checked off I get a dropped frame abort later than usual.

My guess is my only solution is to check off the abort box and just go for it.

Is it possibly something to do with memory and cache? Mine is set to 100%.

Please help!!! Seriously I am in dire need. This has to be done by Monday and it's driving me to the point of about to smash my camera into pieces.

It is dropping a frame and going out of sync. I really need help with this.

Where is your media stored? What sort of media are you dealing with? The black border is an odd thing. Did you have to render each clip you dropped into the timeline? What are your timeline settings?

Dropped frames usually indicate that your media drive is chocking...not able to keep up. You aren't using your system drive are you?

And, what are you outputting to? Your camera? Then do what everyone says and NO NOT edit to tape, but rather crash record and press play, or PRINT TO VIDEO.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

I do not have a deck. I am using a camera because that is all I have. On VCR mode this camera will not record. Is it supposed to? If so my camera is broken which makes me double ******! Isn't a crash edit the total rookie move? I don't know why the experts here are telling me to do this. I am not being sarcastic. Many of you are actually experts. If a crash edit involves recording on VCR mode my camera won't do it. Ctrl M is print to video.
I am using the Final Cut Project with my media stored on a 300 GB external drive with lots of space left.

Well apparently in the camera and the monitor shows the playback but the tape has not been actually recording. The tape hasn't even been moving. It must be the camera is broken.

You need to give us more specific details. Don't just say "I have plenty of space on my external drive". What kind of drive is it? What's the interface (USB? FireWire 400? FireWire 800?)? How much space is left on it? How much RAM do you have? Which exact Panasonic camera are you using?

> Isn't a crash edit the total rookie move?

Does it make you look any more professional if you can't get your show out to tape, period?

If you have a close deadline, then I'd say bite the bullet and rent a DSR-11 deck for a day. I could be wrong, but you don't seem to have enough experience in this to rely on internet long-distance troubleshooting, and as Shane says, if you have a thick black border around your image (not the usual DV black at the edges of frame), then your project may have been set up and then edited wrong to begin with. For example, if your drive wasn't in a proper format for you to edit with, then no troubleshooting step you do right now will be negated by improper setup in the beginning.

Get an experienced FCP person to look at your entire setup.Or, export a full-quality, self-contained movie file of your edit. Check video and audio, sync etc. using QuickTime Player. Then move that movie file to another system to do the tape output.

> Now with mirror on desktop checked off I get a dropped frame abort later than usual.

Turning off Mirror on Desktop should help the output, not hinder it. However, dropped frames is usually not a consistent problem. You could play through 25 minutes of a 30-minute show without a single dropped frame, but the next time you do the output, you could have one.


www.derekmok.com

How are you expecting to output to a camera that cannot record in VTR mode? Most cameras do record...there is a REC button in the area where the PLAY, STOP, PAUSE buttons are. Does your camera not have that?

Isn't a crash edit the total rookie move? I don't know why the experts here are telling me to do this.

Yes it is, but as you said, you do not have a deck...you only have a camera. So the "rookie move" is the only option to you. If you want to do things professionally, get a professional deck. Or at least a camera that records.

How is your media drive formatted? One thing you can try is to export your timeline as a self contained Quicktime Movie, reimport that and export that. Then you only have one file to reference.

But if your camera isn't up to snuff...


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

>>On VCR mode this camera will not record. Is it supposed to?<<

Yes. If you are recording in the camera mode, what it is doing is pulling information in via the lens and the microphone. If you are recording in VCR mode, you are pulling information in via the firewire (or other connection type) connection.

Some consumer cameras will not record in VCR mode. It makes them cheaper to buy.

>>Isn't a crash edit the total rookie move? I don't know why the experts here are telling me to do this<<

Because we're trying to diagnose where the problem is. If you can get video printed to tape using that method, we can eliminate some of the possible causes. It's not the solution we are offering, just a way of us being able to tell what's going on while we sit here blind, thousands of miles away.

If you definitely can't record in VCR mode on the camera, I would suggest getting to a rental house and getting a deck or camera that can, or finding a friend who will lend you one.

Has this ever worked before with this set-up? Does the crash record method work? And yeah - the black border thing is another problem - we're just trying to sort out one thing at a time, so we can all follow what's going on.

Well I went out and bought another camera and it still won't record, yet it plays it on the view finder.
You asked my set up, I have a Maxtor firewire 300 GB drive. I have burned DVDs of this same sequence perfectly. I just can't seem to edit to tape.
Maybe it is possible these camera are not made for this? I don't have anyone to go to for help really. I don't have any editor friends.

But yeah, when it "supposedly" prints to video, on the computer monitor the footage is surrounded by a few inches of black all around. Like if you took the canvas and made it 50% then blew it up, but instead of grey I get black. Did that make sense? Like the footage is zoomed out in a window of black.

Now assuming the camera does not record in VCR mode, can I do the "rookie move" still?

I really appreciate you guys trying to help. It's driving me insane though.

> Well I went out and bought another camera and it still won't record

Which models? You're still not telling us. We can't help you if you don't give us the information. Give us the model numbers and we might be able to look up whether it's even compatible.

Just rent a DSR-11. It's a tried-and-true tape deck for Final Cut Pro.

> I have burned DVDs of this same sequence perfectly.

That doesn't have much to do with the tape output, but it tells you two things: a) The timeline isn't out of sync if your DVD isn't out of sync; and b) If the DVD doesn't have the black border, then it's not on your picture.

Activate Easy Setup (CONTROL-Q) and select DV-NTSC. Turn off the "Report Dropped Frames" User Preference. Do the Render All and Audio Mixdown. Export the self-contained movie file as described above in the thread. Make sure you're monitoring picture and audio sync at the same level (the Canvas never syncs up with external playback).

Do us a favour: Try these steps we're recommending before you dismiss them. I don't think you've ruled out all the most common problems yet.


www.derekmok.com

I did all those steps. The camera I have just purchased is:
Panasonic PV-GS39

That's it? Did everyone give up on me?

Well, Jeremy, we did make some recommendations but I don't know if you're following them. Did you check Easy Setup? Export the self-contained full-quality movie file? Checked sync on that in QuickTime Player yet? If you have checked it, report back with what you see.

Given that your deadline is tomorrow, you should follow the advice Shane and I gave: Rent a sure-fire compatible DV deck like a DSR-11 and do the output that way using the self-contained movie file. Instead of spending all that money on buying cheap cameras that were never intended to be used as professional editing devices in the first place. I've checked the Panasonic PV-GS39 you're using and according to multiple sources, it's not compatible with FCP. What made you choose this camera for the job?


www.derekmok.com

WOW I really appreciate you checking that out for me.
There are no sync issues when saved to quicktime movie.
Now is there any degradation when edited to tape via quicktime movie as opposed to printing to video?

I guess I'll just rent a deck then. Is it safe to repair disk utility for the external disk in the middle of a project?

> Is it safe to repair disk utility for the external disk in the middle of a project?

Usually. Unless the computer crashes in the middle of a running utility. But I keep thinking you're on a wild goose chase, messing with elements that aren't necessarily astray.

> There are no sync issues when saved to quicktime movie.

Then Option B is to copy that movie file to a data DVD or a drive, and move to a working station that has no known issues, rather than groping in the dark yourself.

> Now is there any degradation when edited to tape via quicktime movie as opposed to printing
> to video?

Not if you use Export - QuickTime Movie and then keep all your timeline settings. Export - Using QuickTime Conversion will result in quality loss.

> I really appreciate you checking that out for me

It's just a Google thing. Next time, you should do some research as well, before buying a camera that can't do the job. Two of them, in fact.


www.derekmok.com

Derekmok,
I have checked easy setup. It is set to DVNTSC. The sync issue is all of a sudden there is a skip, which is a dropped frame, then the audio and video goes out of sync due to the missing frame or skip. Via Quicktime movie everything is perfect.

Is it possible that the hardrive needs disk repair? If so, can I do this now, or will it screw up my media files?

Well I didn't have to pay for these cameras actually. I'm not that stupid.
Is the Panasonic PV-DV951D compatible with FCP? It captures fine.

I don't really have access to another Final Cut setup to take the quicktime file. This computer is a G4 with 768 MB of ram. I think I'll repair disk files and just get a deck. I don't see another choice at the moment.

One more question, since I have wasted many tapes on this, if a DV tape has been used, recording over it again will result in degradation right?

Ok I know I am being annoying. Sorry. Remember what it was like in the old days when all this stuff was like being blind in some sort of science fiction maze? Eventually I am sure I will help out some idiot lost like me. WAY in the future.

I went back and discovered that the Panasonic PV-DV951D that I originally used did actually record to tape. How? I don't know what I did. It just got aborted due to dropped frames.

So I think what I need to do is figure out how the hell I got this camera to record, and to figure out what is causing the dropped frames and I'm in business.

WOOOHOOO

> I went back and discovered that the Panasonic PV-DV951D that I originally used did actually
> record to tape

Well, you're talking about a different model, so yeah, it's possible. I didn't find much documentation online about this camera model. Rest assured, no camera will ever do a better job interacting with FCP than a deck. Unless you're talking about LP mode.

> This computer is a G4 with 768 MB of ram.

Your RAM is low, which can explain your problems. Which version of FCP are you running?

> The sync issue is all of a sudden there is a skip, which is a dropped frame, then the audio and
> video goes out of sync due to the missing frame or skip.

That sounds more serious than a usual dropped frame. You say you're using a Maxtor external drive. Did you format it correctly (Mac OS Extended) before using? Is it FireWire 400/800? How full is it? (Give us the actual numbers; don't just say "plenty of space".) Where are your render files? If you have a lot of files clogging up your system drive, you can also have problems even if the media drive has enough space. How much space is in your system drive?

Did you clean the heads on the camera you're recording with?

Other ways of reducing system strain (which causes dropped frames) include making your FCP display icons smaller (eg. use "Reduced" for track size in your Sequences), turning off Waveform Display in the timeline, and lowering the display size of your Viewer and Canvas to less than Fit to Window. You don't need all that stuff when you're outputting to tape. In fact, if you're using Edit to Tape with a compatible playback/recording device, you don't need a timeline window open at all.

I'd also dump your render files, Thumbnail Cache, and Waveform Cache. Then re-render, Audio Mixdown and re-export the movie file. Then, when outputting the new movie file to tape, don't use your editing project file to output to tape. Open a new DV NTSC project file, import ONLY the movie file into it, and do it that way. Your editing project file may be clogged up with unnecessary media; each one of those is asking the computer to do more work in "remembering" the connection.


www.derekmok.com