Edit to Tape is not showing up on tape playback and getting dropped frames.

I'm running Final Cut 5.1.2

When I bought the drive I formatted it for MAC according to the instructions that came with the drive. It is a MAC OS Extended (Journaled). It is a 300 GB drive and I have 105.77 GB left. I don't know if its 400 or 800.

All my render files or stored in the Final Cut Pro Documents folder on this external drive. Is it safe to dump render files, Thumbnail Cache, and Waveform Cache?

The sequence I am outputting to tape has very few media files and is the only sequencer open.

I fiddled with the camera and it won't record on VCR mode. But I have proof it did twice. How I did I have no idea.

You said you already tested a self-contained full-quality movie file and it's fine. How much space do you have on your internal drives? If that movie file contains no sync problems and no dropped frames, then try copying it to an internal drive, dismount, disconnect and switch off your external drive, and then launch FCP, start a new project file, import the movie file into it, render and Audio Mixdown, and try the output again.


www.derekmok.com

Hey is the fact that it's journaled have anything to do with the problems?

So what you are saying is that the dropped frame problem may be due to the firewire connection? Which means if I output to tape via the internal disk, it should go fine? I have 9 GB left of a 30 GB hard drive. Yeah I know my system sucks. I'm poor. Hopefully if I become a good editor I won't be. I made a DVD fine with it. Maybe thats what I'll do.

So making a quicktime movie file, then importing then outputting to tape won't have any degradation? It's going to broadcast.

You have any other ideas why the camera won't record now?

Derek you the man! Seriously!

> Hey is the fact that it's journaled have anything to do with the problems?

Very unlikely. I worked with journaled drives for years and never had a problem because of it. Journalling on a media drive is not recommended, but in this case, you don't have the time to copy the files to another drive, re-format, re-copy, then output. Besides, if the full-quality movie file is indeed pristine, the journalling is practically a non-issue.

> So what you are saying is that the dropped frame problem may be due to the firewire
> connection? Which means if I output to tape via the internal disk, it should go fine?

It's not guaranteed, but generally if your movie file can't playback properly from a non-system internal drive, then your system is probably not going to output anything properly to tape. And it may not be the FireWire connection (you're sure you're not using USB, right?). It could be the drive not being fast enough (7200rpm is recommended for DV), or other drive-related issues. At any rate, what I'm saying is to reduce the number of variables, take the Maxtor (a poor brand, possibly at the bottom of the list for quality) out of the equation.

> I have 9 GB left of a 30 GB hard drive.

30GB on your system drive...less than 1GB of RAM. This really is not a good system to use FCP5 on.

> You have any other ideas why the camera won't record now?

Don't know the camera, can't tell you much. Follow the steps I outlined above to optimize the output process. Do you get external playback at all? If so, just hit record on the camera. If you see an image on the camera using the FireWire connection, then there's no reason it can't record.

> I fiddled with the camera and it won't record on VCR mode. But I have proof it did twice.

Did you lock the anti-record tab on the tape? Is it a new tape or a used one? If you're using Edit to Tape, did you stripe timecode onto the tape before outputting? Did you hit an In point? Did you make sure there's enough pre-roll before the In point? Did you check the camera's menu to make sure you have your input options set correctly?

You see why it's hard to troubleshoot this long-distance. You don't know enough about the process, so there are 50,000 variables. Get someone to look at it. Or, take the movie file to a post-production facility and get the tape out that way.


www.derekmok.com

Sorry man, but it IS the weekend and some of us do have families that like to see us on occasion...hang out...play in the park...stuff like that.

I don't know anything about those cameras, and why they will not record. I have only known of one camera (very low end Canon) that didn't have a record button. But iMovie could control it. Those cameras should have a record button somewhere. But really, if this is for Broadcast then you need proper equipment....which means a proper deck. You can do this with a DSR-11, but you need to to quite a bit of trickery to get proper broadcast timecode and timing (I'll post at end of...this post).

No, you will not take a quality hit if you export as a self contained QT movie using the sequence settings.

TC to DSR-11

Since FCP 4 we have been unable to stripe a new TC such as 00:58:00:00 or 01:58:00:00 to a DVCAM tape with the DSR-11. NO MORE!! I think I found a solution.

Get SimpleVideoOut from the Apple (its free):

[developer.apple.com]

Then create a QT Movie in FCP or Xpress Pro from a sequence which has the starting TC you want on the tape. I just tried it with 00:58:00:00. In the timeline, I just put Bars & Tone for 90 seconds and a black slug for 45 (to take me over 01:00:00:00). You could create a sequence with whatever combination you wanted with the TC set to start at whatever timecode you need for your choice. But the Timeline TC MUST be set to your desired starting code. The exported QT file will have this TC in it.

Then load this DV QT movie into SimpleVideoOut (having selecting Firewire / Apple Firewire PAL or NTSC when you open the app).

Now load a fresh DVCAM tape and set your DSR-11 to:

REC MODE = DVCAM
DV IN TC = EXTERNAL

(Have the TC display turned on for this first test so you can verify it has worked.)

Then just hold the REC and PLAY buttons together on the DSR-11 and press play in the SimpleVideoOut app and the new TC will be recorded to your DVCAM tape. Hey presto you are now able to stripe a tape with what ever timecode you want using a DSR-11.

Remember to turn 'DV IN TC' back to INTERNAL on the DSR-11 when you come to record your edit to tape.

The problem with the DSR-11 is that it is not the best deck and starting recording at the exact TC, but playing with the pre-rolls should eventually get it spot on. I have had some success with FCP's 'Edit to Tape' and very good results with Avid Xpress Pro after a few tweaks.

Also, if you just had a black QT file, you can change the starting TC to suite the tape; i.e. 00:58:00:00 or 02:58:00:00 etc without going back into FCP or Xpress Pro and rendering out another QT. To do this, just use Sebsky Tools to alter the starting TC of the file.
[www.dharmafilm.com]


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Derek and Shane:

Did you lock the anti-record tab on the tape?
Yes
Is it a new tape or a used one?
Both I have used.

If you're using Edit to Tape, did you stripe timecode onto the tape before outputting?
I have no idea how to do that, but for this broadcast they don't require it.
Don't bother explaining it to me. It sounds way crazy!

Did you hit an In point? Did you make sure there's enough pre-roll before the In point?
Excuse my ignorance but I don't understand this. I hit ctrl M and go from there. Set Ins and Outs where? I do that on capture.

Did you check the camera's menu to make sure you have your input options set correctly?
I think so.

Here's the deal:
The record button will only work on Camera mode not VCR mode. Yet it did work twice and I forgot what I did then. As you may have noticed, I have been at this for hours and I may not be in the most mentally stable condition right now. This is driving me postal!

Shane, is it required I do all that to record from a deck? DoI have to strip it and timecode it? If so, I may just lose my mind!

But the oddest thing of all, is while printing to video, the viewer of the camera plays the movie as if it is recording, but the tape heads don't move. I press the record button and it does nothing. Only when I switch on camera mode which will just film from the lens.

Derek you are right, doing this online is unbearable.

Jeditor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you're using Edit to Tape, did you stripe
> timecode onto the tape before outputting?
> I have no idea how to do that, but for this
> broadcast they don't require it.
> Don't bother explaining it to me. It sounds way
> crazy!

Uhhh...dude? If you don't know the basics of post production, such as how to stripe timecode onto a tape, much less how it is benificial, then what are you doing editing something for broadcast? You obviously do not have the skills required for such a task. I don't mean to be cruel here, just mean to state a fact. If I was planning to race cars professionally I'd be expected to know what the CLUTCH was, and how to use it. You obviously don't know the first thing about how to output a tape. Is sounds "way crazy?" Uhh...Ooookaaaay.

> Did you hit an In point? Did you make sure
> there's enough pre-roll before the In point?
> Excuse my ignorance but I don't understand this. I
> hit ctrl M and go from there. Set Ins and Outs
> where? I do that on capture.

And this is something you do on OUTPUT as well. Once you black a tape, you need to tell FCP where on that tape you want to start recording. Again, basic function.

> Here's the deal:
> The record button will only work on Camera mode
> not VCR mode. Yet it did work twice and I forgot
> what I did then. As you may have noticed, I have
> been at this for hours and I may not be in the
> most mentally stable condition right now. This is
> driving me postal!
>
You are looking at the wrong thing...COMPLETELY wrong thing. The button you press to make the camera record while in camera mode IS NOT the same button you press when outputting to tape. Look at the controls you use to PLAY, PAUSE, FAST FORWARD and REWIND the tape when in VTR mode. THERE is where you'll fine the RECORD button needed for this task.

> Shane, is it required I do all that to record from
> a deck? DoI have to strip it and timecode it? If
> so, I may just lose my mind!

Yes, you need a deck and you need to stripe timecode to it to deliver a proper broadcast master. If you may lose your mind doing this simple task, then I think you need to go get yourself some proper training on post production. These are the SIMPLE tasks...stuff that Assistant editors are assigned to do.

If you can CRASH record...the ONLY way you are going to get your timeline to tape with a camera, as you cannot black and code (stripe timecode) tapes with a camera, nor generate code or edit to tape...not on ANY camera...if you can crash record then you can at least deliver the tape to the client. Or better yet, get it dubbed at a dub house where they can have the picture start at the proper time of 1:00:00:00.

I won't bother to ask if you have bars and tone, a slate, or your project set up for proper show timing, because if you can't get the very basics, I doubt you'd even know what I am talking about.

Pardon my harshness.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Hey Shane, I am obviously a beginner trying my best. There really isn't a need for this kind of attitude. I know how to edit, and I am used to making DVDs. I was fortunate enough to ask to do an infomercial for a local broadcast station that didn't require the highest standards. All I need to do is give them a tape of the edit and they are happy. Maybe you Shane were born with inherent post production knowledge and it just came easy to you. Maybe you have been fortunate to have a great assistant position where you learned a lot about post. I have not had that opportunity yet.

Of course I know about slate, bars and tone and such. I know how to edit, and have no problem making DVDs. This is the first time I have had to make tapes so it is challenging.

Gotta agree with Shane. If this is a broadcast delivery, you must have enough self-awareness to know when you need help doing something. You're diddling on a system you don't know for sure can do this task, and the operator isn't 100 per cent, either, which sends the number of variables sky-high. Judging from your posts, I don't think you can do this by just consulting an internet forum. You need hands-on help. Go to a post house, be specific, ask questions, get the help you need to finish this show.


www.derekmok.com

I wasn't born with inherent post ability...I started out as a tape vault manager and worked my way up....learning as I progressed.

Sorry for the attitude...but this was getting frustrating. We are trying to help you out but you seem to not be able to grasp what we are saying. Or you seem to be ignoring it. Either way...it is frustrating.

Do you see the record button that I mentioned? The one where they PLAY button is? If you can find that, then you can play your timeline and record that to tape.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Hey man, I read everything all of you posted. I did everything you guys asked. Since this is my first time printing to tape, of course stripping is new to me.

I do not see the record button you are talking about.

Jeditor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I did all those steps. The camera I have just
> purchased is:
> Panasonic PV-GS39

This camera does not have a RECORD option. It can play the footage out, but it cannot record a signal being fed to it from any source, not even FCP:

"VCR Mode (6.5)
The VCR mode provides a number of options that can be used prior to exporting footage from MiniDV to PC or another viewing device. Once the Playback Mode has been engaged via the mode dial, the accessed VCR mode allows users to control standard Play, Stop, Pause, FF and Rewind controls through the cardinal directions of the joystick controller. To adjust audio levels during playback, the user engages the zoom toggle to either raise or lower these levels. To play back still images, users must switch to the Memory Card Playback Mode; they can then start and stop slide shows with the up arrow, erase images via the down arrow, play back one image with the left arrow, and move forward among successive images with the right arrow. To view multiple thumbnail images users will need to slide the zoom toggle once to the left. This will prompt six still image files to be displayed as thumbnails on one screen."

You need another camera/deck.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

You may have to hit Play on the camera then Pause then the Record button then the Pause button again to get it rolling in VCR mode. See if that works. You may just have to hit Record and Play at the same time. It depends on the camera

------------------------
Dean

"When I see you floating down the gutter I'll give you a bottle of wine."
Captain Beefheart, Trout Mask Replica.

The bottom line here is I lose. We all lose!
This camera: Panasonic PV-DV951D did record twice and I have no idea how I did it. I pushed every dial in every combination a zillion times. There is no record button other than the filming one. Dean I did what you said, still a no go.

I think the dropped frames may be because I only have 768 Ram. It may be that simple? Do you guys agree?

I found someone who I can take my media to his place tomorrow and output on his system. I lose.

RAM would be an issue. You need at least 1GB to sue FCP reliably....1.5-2.5 to edit comfortably.

That camera might have a hidden record option...time to leaf thru the camera manual.

I am sorry that you weren't able to do this on your own. Ask questions to the person helping you. Make sure they show you what they are doing.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

I'd look around on the camera I had an old Sony Digi 8 that you could only see the controls when it was in VCR mode and on. I couldn't find a good image of your camera to see where the controls are. Like on my Canon GL2 the controls are under a flap on the top handle. Esy to miss.

------------------------
Dean

"When I see you floating down the gutter I'll give you a bottle of wine."
Captain Beefheart, Trout Mask Replica.

I've searched the entire camera for 2 days,

Would be cool if someone here had this camera. I am more interested in solving this mystery now than actually getting the edits done.

What camera do you have?

Manufacturer and model number please...


Ben



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Panasonic PV-DV951D

The question at hand is how to output to tape with FCP using this camera. There seems to be no record button in site for this. But it can definitely do it because I accidently did it twice before.

appogies if this has been covered before, but its a long thread and a lot to wade through.

if your camera is in VCR mode you should be able to Print To Video (PTV) without needing to manually put it into record.

in the PTV window there should be a checkbox option at lower left labeled "Automatically Start Recording"

and in the Audio/Video Settings >> Device Control presets there should be an option to "Auto Record and PTV after xxx seconds"

one of those should do it.

(again, sorry if this is rehashing advice thats already been covered)

Hey Andy is probably right. I was looking at the camera for what I could tell it should have a remote control like many VCR's maybe it is the only way to get the camera in playback or record mode. Do you have a remote for it? Since it is a discontinued (consumer)model it's hard to find info on it.

------------------------
Dean

"When I see you floating down the gutter I'll give you a bottle of wine."
Captain Beefheart, Trout Mask Replica.

According to the checks I did the Panasonic PV-DV951D does have Firewire/iLink/DV input so it might work.

Ok, lets look at your setup.


Connect your firewire in a chain like this:

Mac>HDD>Camera

Then

? Insert a DV tape (record tab closed) into your PV-DV951

? Set your camera to VCR mode

At this point

? Click View>Refesh AV Devices

? Click View>Video Playback>Apple FireWire NTSC (720x480)

Try scrubbing the timeline and see if it appears on your DV Cameras screen.

Then

? Press Ctrl+m (print to video) Don't select automatically start recording

? Press ok

Wait for the screen to go black and the dialogue box to come up

Then on your Camera:

? Whilst pressing the REC button, press the PLAY button

Leave for a couple of seconds

? click ok (on FCP)

Let the timeline finish and leave a few seconds on the DV tape then press stop.


If this doesn't work get the sequence playing through your camera and do a crash record as your camera probably won't automatically start recording via FCP (don't quote me but I've read the manual and it doesn't seem to support record control).

The Panasonic PV-DV951D PDF Manual is here if anyone else is interested in double checking [media-server.amazon.com]

Page 41


Ben



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Additional - sorry I didn't read the previous 2 posts but you DO need the Remote for this if you don't have it then you will need to get it to work with the automatically start recording function on Print to video as Andy mentioned.

Ben



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Ok guys, I figured this out. Are you ready?

First of all, all you guys, even Shane, are amazing for all the effort you put into helping me. I wasn't trying to waste your time. I was really struggling with this. Liek all things, sometimes the solutions to problems are so simple they can be overlooked.

Heres the deal:

In the print to video dialogue box, start recording automatically is all that nneds to be checked to get the camera recording. No hidden record button, no fancy remote needed, no special setup. Just that damn box needs to be checked!!! Only Andy mentioned that. How could we have missed this?

Why I was getting dropped frames I am assuming is to low Ram, so I just ordered more Ram. It could be another reason, but I am going with low Ram.

WOW This was a long thread.

THANKS!!!!

All the cameras I have used have record buttons. I am not used to such "low end" cameras that don't, that I didn't think of that.

Plus I haven't output to a camera...well...like ever. Always a deck. And they have record buttons.

Glad you figured this out.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Hey we might have set a Guinness World record with this thread we could keep it going if we wanted to be in the record books
Anyway the main reason for dropped frames is normally not the ram but the throughput of the hard drive.

I just took a self contained file and printed to video on a more powerful machine with 2 GB of RAM and it went perfectly.