Up res to HD from SD

Hi all...

So I know one can capture say PD170 footage using the Kona 3 card and up res to DVCPro HD @ 59.94

Does this process actually improve the quality of the SD footage? Is there a process that does? The PD footage will be cut together with some HVX200 footage and I would like them to "play nicely... any suggestions?"

Thanks!

BTW - I do own the Kona LE and I FINALLY (for those who were around to witness my ranting and willing to help as always) got the thing to work with my system. All new RAM, full reinstall of OS etc. Don't know what the exact culprit was though. I think it was faulty RAM though...

Troy Christian

G5 Quad, 8GB RAM, FCP HD Suite 2 6.0.5, OSX 10.5.6
AJA LHe card

<<<Does this process actually improve the quality of the SD footage?>>>

No. It upconverts the pixels to take up more room. It can't make new ones.

A number of things have to happen. The process has to take out the NTSC enhancing edge signals (if possible), convert, change the color configuration (luminance formulae), and then put the much gentler HiDef enhancing back in. You can almost always tell--particularly if you try to intercut the real thing.

You can always cheat and degrade the real thing...... It actually doesn't look too bad if you do that. This process is helped along considerably by the face that an enormous number of people can't see all the pixels they paid for anyway--remembering that a "natural" 1080 flat panel is something like four feet wide.

Also it helps if the "HiDef" you're intercutting isn't good HiDef, like HDV.

Koz

I guess it'll be Natress film effects ...

Thanks Koz

Troy Christian

G5 Quad, 8GB RAM, FCP HD Suite 2 6.0.5, OSX 10.5.6
AJA LHe card

How much footage are we talking about here? The Kona can do it, and have a CENTER extraction. Or, you can rent an AJ-HD1400 deck and have it upconvert for you...again, center extraction. meaning that the top and bottom of the picture are cut off. The Kona 3 will do a better job, for it is like a mini Terranex.

Or...you can manually resize the DV footage you cut into the project, and then at the end, string out only what you use in the cut into a DV timeline (with some minor handles), output that to tape and then upconvert it to DVCPRO HD with a full fledged terranex, then cut it back in. Since it is in order of where it is in the show, it won't take long.

This is what we did on the last show I worked on.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Nattress doesn't upconvert. INSTANT HD from Red Giant is an option, and I have compressor droplets at www.proapptips.com that upconvert...top, center and lower extraction. But those take TIME.

The first solution I offered I feel is the better one. Or the Kona 3 option. Either one.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

So, how close does ?best case? footage come to intercutability? (I think that?s a new word! and spelled wrong to boot?) Say, from a Sony DSR500, or Panasonic SDX900? ( Having a Sony DSR500, and not much chance of an imminent upgrade, I feel a little bit like a kid reaching out to touch the hot stove here, but curiousity still compels me?)

randy

Depends on the show. If there is a plot separation, you may get away with it, like if the exterior shots are one and the interiors are the other.

I would not want to be you if her camera is HiDef and his camera is uprezzed.

Koz

The difference will be obvious. BLARINGLY obvious. You can't intercut them in terms of A-camera and B-Camera in the same scene.

What Koz said.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

The version of Compressor included with Final Cut Studio 5.x includes some great optical flow based scaling technology. You can up-res from SD to HD and get great results. Optical flow basically does a pixel-by-pixel analysis, creates vectors for every pixel, and then generates completely new frames as necessary. This isn't your standard scaling/retiming algorithm. The results are extremely high-quality (processing time is pretty steep, though). You can access these controls through the Compressor presets or through the Frame Controls tab.

Paul from Apple

Yup...and that is why I have used it with great success. It just takes a LONG TIME if you do it right. 20 seconds of DV to DVCPRO HD took me 45 min.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Thank you all for the help as always!
This question is for a "making of doc" and therefore there is footage from disparate sources which you can kind of get away with in the styling of it. Which is why I said Nattress ... not to up res but to stylize in some way to disguse differences in a purposeful manner.
So, If my SD footage from the PD170 and PD150 (various time lapse, interviews, rehearsals footage and B-Roll which was shot in 16x9) has been captured already using a DSR 11, and there is a TON of it, and considereing I DO have some time as I am still cutting the musical movie (probably another 3-4 weeks) and also considering that I want the best possible result, would the best choice be the time intensive Compressor up res?

Troy Christian

G5 Quad, 8GB RAM, FCP HD Suite 2 6.0.5, OSX 10.5.6
AJA LHe card

<<<20 seconds of DV to DVCPRO HD took me 45 min.>>>

You can guess at it from those numbers. a 30 minute show will take 67.5 hours to convert--almost 3 days.

Koz

Yikes ... never liked math...

From a quality standpoint, do you think the result is worth the time? Also, I need to cut this stuff together with the 720p @ 59.94 HVX footage. Can I cut THEN convert? That would mean rendering every slice wouldn't it?

Troy Christian

G5 Quad, 8GB RAM, FCP HD Suite 2 6.0.5, OSX 10.5.6
AJA LHe card

Worth the time? With the amount of footage you are talking about, I wouldn't do it that way. I would cut the footage into the show, resizing and rendering as you go. Then, when you lock picture...finish the edit...I would then go thru the cut, find all the DV footage I used..build a DV timeline with that footage, export that as a self contained QT file, then uprez that. That way you have a small amount of footage to uprez.

Really, if it was me and I had the money, I'd uprez with a Kona 3, DVCPRO HD deck ($375/day rental) or use a terranex box)


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Not sure why I would need the deck if the media is in the computer already (and is on mini dv). I guess I just - no I am certain - that I am not familiar enough with that process to understand what each component (Kona 3 and DVCPro deck) would do. I'll try and read up on it so as to get my head wrapped around it.

Troy Christian

G5 Quad, 8GB RAM, FCP HD Suite 2 6.0.5, OSX 10.5.6
AJA LHe card

If the footage is already in your system, then you can use Compressor.

You can also put all your DV footage on a separate layer and export an EDL. Use that EDL to re-capture the footage using a DVCPRO HD deck or a Kona 3 to upconvert it. Or, you can take your DV selects that you put in a timeline and output that to tape, then recapture that, upconverting with the deck or Kona 3. Or take that tape to a post facility with a terranex and get REALLY good results.

Now..I have given enough free workflow advice that you can pick thru.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Thanks Shane and all...

I do appreciate and respect the time it takes to help others get through issues and such...

Troy Christian

G5 Quad, 8GB RAM, FCP HD Suite 2 6.0.5, OSX 10.5.6
AJA LHe card

Just an FYI-

Dropped the SD stuff into Compressor to test the transfer to HD. I must say that the results are amazing! Way too time consuming to do all of the footage, but seems extremely worthwhile in transferring the final SD edit to HD.

Thanks for the tip!

Troy Christian

G5 Quad, 8GB RAM, FCP HD Suite 2 6.0.5, OSX 10.5.6
AJA LHe card