Not without a fee Missy

i do have to agree with jeff one one very true point. it is often a humongus goose chase trying to secure licensing of major label music.

i have had two national level projects where a client with DEEP pockets wanted a certain popular song. they had money ready to dole out and we simply couldnt get our calls answered or returned. id gamble it was as much due to our ignorance of the process as anything else. but it would be nice if these folks made taking our money a tad easier ; )

> i do have to agree with jeff one one very true point. it is often a humongus goose chase
> trying to secure licensing of major label music.

Fair enough. But I'm sure in that case, Wayne, you guys went with something you could legally use, rather than stick in the song you can't get and hope nobody would notice. This is why I come down hard on people who suggest that. Filmmakers starting out have a tough enough time understanding this; we don't need them to get misinformation about "grey areas", "fair use" and other malarkey.

Connections do help. But this is why I never cut dead to music. If the sequence loses its rhythm because you replace the song, then it probably wasn't that well cut to begin with. Besides, good music is everywhere -- I got my favourite songwriter in the world to write and record a song for my student film for no money at all.


www.derekmok.com

oh HELL YEAH. i would [almost] walk away from a job before id be part of stealing music, software, video or anything else. two reasons. 1. there is no honor in thievery and 2. karma is a BITCH! you may save a grand here and there but it'll catch up with you two fold later in life.

i as well have a handfull of compsers that i use if budget allows and keep a variety of royalty free stuff handy - hell, ive even been known to score my own from time to time.

hold on derek.

you get up to go to someone elses building who is also paying the bills. and you have a staff i am sure is well over 10. how much time do you spend doing pay roll or answering emails for the entire company? do you have to do every part of the production except the acting? NO YOU DO NOT because you work for someone else. who is spending thier money to pay you to do a small part of a large operation.

i pay my staff which currently consist of 2 sales people, a part time ameature camera man, and a assistant who has to manage those people so that i can keep up with production. for 8 months i have averaged 5 hrs of sleep a day. my time is rather full. if you check the post you will find that i post at all times except 5:30am - 10am. you do the math.

so yes, 45 mins a day for more than 3-5days is a strain on my schedule. by the way i do my own music now 90% of the time the other ten are clever remixes. according to the folks who raped me for my stuff, that is perfectly legal in the U.S.

i dont mind paying for stuff but it should be easier to get that done. that is my main point about the music.

sorry for the PMS run on but time is a sensitive subject to me. i would rather you had sex with my girlfriend. i do respect your opinions but i work ALL the freakin time here lately.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

So by that logic, then its ok for someone else to use footage that you shot to edit something for sale, without asking for permission, as long as they do a hot job and are too busy to find your phone number and ring you and go through the process of asking you and signing a contract of some form that acknowledges/pays/protects you. Yes?

No grey area. If you use someone else's work you must ask for permission and, if required, pay for the rights. It's way too complicated, yes, but that's the law.

Quote
derekmok
I got my favourite songwriter in the world to write and record a song for my student film for no money at all.

OK I'll bite. Who?

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!

jude,
check out this quote.

Quote
JC
by the way i do my own music now 90% of the time the other ten are clever remixes.

if it is too hard to get in contact with someone then i just remake the song with a couple of notes difference. after all i do play 4 instruments.

and you know what i am gonna post 2 of them that i am working on now to show and tell, so that you guys will know that i dont just make music to get by in a video. i make actual marketable music that i dont release to anyone who cant give me credit.

oh without look back in the post to see who said it, i do feel as though music is more protected than video. editors can not copywrite a commposition, such as the scanner darkly look or the hp commercial look with the frames. those are compositions to me, and they can not be copywriten.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

> editors can not copywrite a commposition, such as the scanner darkly look or the hp
> commercial look with the frames. those are compositions to me, and they can not be
> copywriten.

That's because you still don't understand copyright law. (And it's "copyright", not "copywrite".)

Copyright law only protects a "specific, tangible expression of an idea", not the idea itself. The work must be "tangible" and encapsulated in a physical form. For example, you can't copyright the concept that presidential power should be checked by the Legislative and Judicial Branches. However, an essay you write on the topic, the specific words and phrases you use, is protected by copyright law as your work. Your idea of a warty toad that goes to Hollywood to become a porn star is not protected, but a screenplay you write on that idea is protected.

An editor can't copyright an editing style; a director can't copyright the A Scanner Darkly "look". Because those are concepts, not tangible in the real world. But the film's actual form and images are protected. In music, you can't copyright a great guitar tone you come up with -- anybody else with the same equipment can try to copy your tone. But the actual notes you play, and the composition of the music (chord progressions married to arrangement and vocal melodies, if any) are protected.

That last part is a difficult one, because while compositions are protected, there are only 12 notes in Western music. Film has so many elements -- actors, dialogue, cinematography, effects, editing -- that the combination of elements is infinite. In music, however, even if you're working with Indian raga and microtonal variations in between the 12 recognized notes in Western music, there's a much more limited palette, which is why there are more songwriters claiming plagiarism than filmmakers.

For example, you can't copyright the Am-D-F-G chord progression. Which is where legal interpretation comes in. George Harrison's "My Sweet Lord" was declared "unconscious plagiarism" of The Chiffrons' "He's So Fine". However, it wasn't enough that the writer of the Chiffrons song say that the chords are the same. The court had to take the entire songs into consideration and decide whether they were similar enough. And then it had to figure out Harrison's intent -- did he intentionally copy the Chiffrons song? Hence the "compromise" ruling -- Harrison was not found guilty of any criminal wrongdoing, but he still had to pay the Chiffrons song's writer royalties because the court found the two compositions to be similar enough.


www.derekmok.com

ARGH. Just wrote a long post and Safari crashed? Anyone else having issues with the site atm?

Can't be bother writing it all again, but lets just say Jeff, I disagree with you strongly on most of your points, and the law does too.

And please, we all work long hours and are underpaid - try being a touring musician.

I reckon its time to end this one - we're not getting anywhere....

> OK I'll bite. Who?

A woman named Michèle Gould. She was half of the duo Lava Hay in the early '90s and led the band Taste of Joy in the mid-'90s. Taste of Joy's Trigger Fables is my favourite record.


www.derekmok.com

See? Writers are protected against a big company like Sony BMG and a huge artist like Beyoncé.

[www.billboard.com]


www.derekmok.com