QT export doesn't match sequence

I'm working on a DV NTSC project at 23.98 fps. Recently cut a 2hr rough assembly of the footage and made a 26 GB QT export for the director and producer - they wanted to be able to watch on their laptops. I got some feedback about some weird edits and decided to import the QT and check it against my sequence. It doesn't match! Periodically there is an extra frame at the end of a cut, bumping the next cut down a frame. Soon, everything is out by several frames. The total length is the same, with a few seconds chopped off at the end.

I exported using "Quicktime movie" - "current settings" - "make movie self contained"

On a possibly related note, I've noticed that there doesn't seem to be any difference between checking or not checking the "self contained" button. In both cases the export takes just as long and results in the same sized file.


G5 dual 2 Ghz
2 GB RAM
500 GB SATA RAID
FCP 5.1.4
OS X 10.4.9
QT 7.1.5

which QT file are you checking against the seq, the self contained one or the unchecked self contained?

both - they're identical

Unchecking "Self Contained" should give you a very much smaller reference movie. Sudden, uinexplained Final Cut insanity could be corrupted preferences. Machine insanity could be your System Drive filling up.

Did you render everything, mix down sound, etc, etc? Do all your video clips match each other--no 29.97 clips mixed in there?

Koz

that's pretty weird, Phil.
i wish i was more experienced with 23.98, maybe the problem lies in there???
do you get an extra frame regularly?
every thousand?
would that be a drop frame thing?

have you tried trashing your prefs?


nick

It's a straight cut assembly, so nothing to render or mixdown, and all my clips are from the same master tape.

System drive and media RAID have plenty of free space.

As far as I know, 23.98 is only non drop.

I have been getting some weird behavior for the last few weeks - canvas won't update, trim mode funkiness, a tool that doesn't behave as expected, etc. - but I haven't worried about it because a simple quit/re launch of FCP usually solved the problem. I've done a safe boot, repair permisions and trash prefs a couple times in the last month also, but not lately. I'll try that again and re-do the export overnight, it takes a few hours.

If that doesn't help, what's next? Reinstall FCP and/or the OS?

Koz, I notice your emphasis on "should" about the ref movie being smaller. Is this not always the case?

"It's a straight cut assembly, so nothing to render or mixdown"

(a mixdown may still help, although i kind of doubt it.)

but something doesn't add up here:

"It's a straight cut assembly, so nothing to render or mixdown"
"media RAID"
"re-do the export overnight, it takes a few hours."

HOURS to export a simple 2hr DV sequnce to a fast drive?
this should take 30mins or so.

nick

Actually it's 2hr 40 min, and yeah the export took about 2 hours

Nick,

You've inadvertantly solved the problem. I occurred to me that you're right, 2hrs was an awfully long export time. Then I remembered that my footage is all anamorphic and I'm cutting in a non-anamorph sequence for viewing my 4:3 NTSC monitor. Never paid attention to the olive green render bar, and when I hit cmd+R nothing happened, so I didn't think about it.

So I re-did the assembly in an anamorphic sequence. The export took 30 minutes like you said, and more importantly, matches the sequence.

I guess having FCP do a long render in combination with a QT export caused some kind of file corruption?

<<<23.98 is only non drop. >>>

Actually, 29.97 and 23.976 both take drop frame time code. It makes up for the fact that in neither of those two frame rates does a one hour show take up 60 minutes.

<<<"should" about the ref movie being smaller. Is this not always the case?>>>

A reference movie (non self-contained) is really a bookkeeping process that points to the original clips at the right times and places. If you have an abysmally complicated show, the bookkeeping might end up as big as the actual show. More importantly, a complicated show may not play as a reference movie--especially if the clips are scattered all over the place. The only sure way to deal with this is to export the whole show as a fully rendered, self-contained movie.

<<<have you tried trashing your prefs? >>>

Have you done that? When was the last time you ran Disk Repair and Repair Permissions? Have you ever run the "Periodic" tools?

How big is the System Drive? This is a pretty tiny machine to be pumping out two and a half hour movies all at one go. You understand when you told the machine to change display formats, it had to decompress the whole thing, change the format, and then recompress it again? With only 2G of on-board memory, I'm amazed you're still not standing there waiting for it to finish.

How big is the show uncompressed? Figure about 1M per frame. I'm betting you don't have enough room for that which is why the machine choked.

Koz

thanks for getting back to us on that, Phil

"Never paid attention to the olive green render bar, and when I hit cmd+R nothing happened, so I didn't think about it. "

wow, i never would have thought the "Full" render would cause such problems.
that's the setting where FCP believes it's good enough to play without rendering.
i've seen that as far as quality goes, that;s not always correct, but this proves that it goes much further than that.

to render the olive green "Full" setting go to the Sequence Menu > Render All, and make sure the "Full" setting is ticked.
to render it (and everything) is Option R.
if you want it to be an Apple R "Render Selection" operation, then go to Sequence Menu > Render Selection, and tick it there.


cheers,
nick

Just to be clear, there is a drop frame 23.98 time code on some systems but not in FCP.

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!

<<<Just to be clear, there is a drop frame 23.98 time code on some systems but not in FCP.>>>

Fascinating. So the question forces itself past my lips: How do they make up the error? How do you deliver an hour show that's 60 minutes and some seconds long?

Koz

Shane and I use different methods. I believe Shanes involves putting the 23.98 sequence into another sequence with a different timebase or something. Mine involves using a TC calculator and figuring out the offset there. Not pretty either way but it works.
Ideally (Hello PfA!) it would be nice to have 23.98DF as a sequence TC choice for cutting 23.98 format shows destined for TV.
There was a thread about this a while back but damned if I'm gonna look it up. I've got laziness hovering 'round me like fog. Back to staring out the window into the dull gray sky...

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!

<<<Back to staring out the window into the dull gray sky...>>>

This is where I spent the day.

[www.kozco.com]

The hill grew in so I can't stand exactly there any more, but the beach hasn't changed. 82F and trade winds.

Koz