CAPTURE BIG ENDIAN AUDIO

I'm working in a post-production house and we have just gone tapeless. The tapeless system we are using only allows for media to be imported with specific settings. We are going to import all of our old media but are using compressor to change the media to the correct settings.

DV/DVC PRO NTSC 29.97
48Khz (Big Endian) 16 bit

HERES MY PROBLEM:

For future capturing I need to make all the audio BIG ENDIAN but FCP only wants to record LITTLE ENDIAN. I'm an experienced AE but a FCP novice. Can some one help me to create the correct settings. THANKS IN ADVANCE

Big/Little Endian is the difference between Windows and Macintosh hardware.

I am guesing the DV was captured on a PC?

Past that and without more hardware and software specifics, it's hard to advise.

If the difference is PC vs Mac then that makes a ton of sense:

What else do you need as far as INFO?

I'm using an 8 core G5 MAC for my FCP

the Tapeless system is definitely PC based

I know FCP can export Big Endian, but I want to know if I can import Big Endian.

If I can't then I have to compress everything before it enters into the Tapeless system and that'll be a nightmare.

I would focus on workflows instead of Endian issues. Lets say you capture audio on a PC with some Windows application or perhaps more information about the tapeless system would help bring out what the crux of the problem is.

I use tapeless import from a Panasonic HVX-200 camera via P2 cards or direct capture over Firewire.

If it is audio ONLY, then what is the datapath the audio follows from ingest to crossover to the MAC?

Normally if you work tapeless you should work with .wav files (or BWAV files).
It doesn't matter whether they are big/little endian. Any professional system will read both of them correctly.
Nothing needs to be compressed. It's just the byte order -- one reads from start to end, the other from end to start.
FCP doesn't care about big/little endian as well - it knows how to handle.

Andreas

Intel processors (those used in PC's & Intel Macs) use "Little Endian" byte order

Motorola processors (those used in Pre Intel Mac's) use "Big Endian" byte order


Also AIFF was originally a Big Endian format for both Mac/PC but sure enough the Intel Macs record Little Endian AIFF Audio.

I suggest getting hold of a G5 based Mac as it creates Big Endian AIFF with DV for capture

or continue exporting the captured files as Big Endian as you are doing until there is a setting made available for FCP - which at present I can't seem to adjust either in tests.

I would also send feedback to the Tapeless System supplier and tell them they need to remove the limit on the AIFF audio in their app as and update ASAP.


Ben



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

We are a FCP house that uses an XAN server.

The majority of our media comes on HDV cameras that have hard drives. With those we easily drag and drop the media into the Tapeless system

The tapeless system (A PC BASED FRENCH SYSTEM) operates as follows:
-it allows detailed descriptions with media fields for advanced searches
-it allows producers to make stringouts of media
-it allows producers and AEs to create clip bins with desired media
-it does a bunch of other needless crap, etc, etc,
-xmls are then created which point to media in clip bins and stringouts
-xmls can be imported to FCP and allow the editors to use that media

The problem is that the tapeless system "figuratively" sits on top of our server. So all media has to go thru the Tapeless system before it can be added to the server. The only formats the tapelss system understands is HDV and DV25. THE AUDIO IT NEEDS IS:

AIFF PCM 48Khz 16 Bit (BIG ENDIAN)

The tapeless system has a BAD crash recorder with no deck control. If we use the crash recorder then everything would captured ON THE FLY, which is asking for problems. Especially if we ever have to Batch Capture. We would prefer to capture on FCP and then drop the media files into the Tapeless System. The picture that is created in FCP imports fine, but when audio is attached we get errors. Up until now I have been taking all the files and converting them with Compressor. Compressor works in a reasonable amount of time but isn't optimal. I want to set up Capture tool to use Big Endian because It'll save a step.

The influx of tapes that will need to be digged isn't going to be very much on a day to day basis. We do have about 2000 OLD tapes that need to be ingested into the tapeless system. As well as we are a Daily Show and always on a time crunch, so to have to import a tape and then use compressor to change its format isn't optimal.


I hope this is a little more detailed. And once again THANKS A LOT FOR THE HELP

WOW! That's one convoluted workflow!!

HDV can be imported directly into FCP via Firewire, audio and video both. Let me guess! The XSAN is also PC formatted which blows the file formats right out of the water, so to speak.

I take it that your description of a "Tapeless System" is really a way to dump clips into a server environment so that several folks can access those same clips randomly.

So I will hazard another guess here. You company's insistence on using a PC based file system is playing havoc with Final Cut Pro headed HDV clips. This causes you to loose file identifiers that are essetial to a MAC file system.

All I can say is YIKES!

Quote
orkinmanp
THE AUDIO IT NEEDS IS:
AIFF PCM 48Khz 16 Bit (BIG ENDIAN)

You should talk to these french guys, AIFF is not a good idea at all for a system like that as there are several versions of AIFF out there. The current Apple AIFF version is not a real original AIFF version (independent from PPC/Intel - have look at wikipedia). It also does not - in any case - allow to store readable metadata or timecode.
As most of the people here know I love XML, but it's changing quite rapidly - which is fine and difficult to handle.
An FCP audio XML (or a FCP XML including audio) will never work reliable if the "big system" fails as there can't be any tc or reel information transported into FCP currently - except the "big system" would export the AIFF as QT and will write metadata into the QT file - then you maybe can use the QT metadata hidden in the file if.
With BWAV format, FCP XML and iXML you're always on the safe side of life - the setup you describe is calling for trouble in the future.

But anyway - do what Ben suggested get hold of an old PPC Mac (you can get mine ;-)).

Quote
orkinmanp
We would prefer to capture on FCP and then drop the media files into the Tapeless System. The picture that is created in FCP imports fine, but when audio is attached we get errors. Up until now I have been taking all the files and converting them with Compressor. Compressor works in a reasonable amount of time but isn't optimal. I want to set up Capture tool to use Big Endian because It'll save a step.

So using FCP for capture you may try to capture video/audio to different files - but as said the described system setup is asking for trouble in my opinion.

I work fo an international company which is dealing similar stuff (currently only for Avid - we are working on a FCP solution) but they never wasted any second to deal with AIFF.
AIFF can be used in sound libraries where you never need to retrieve/handle something except some entries from the database, or use it with DVD production but serious media management shouldn't use that format.

I don't want to be offending. Try to talk to the guys whether there are other options.

Andreas

THANKS EVERYONE


Don't worry I'm not offend by anything said. I neither bought the Server or the French System. Nor did I design the import/export settings. So none of this offends me, but confirms my suspicions about this system. I'm an Avid guy and FCP is great for editing. For a Post Production Flow, this doesn't seem like the best software.

Quote
orkinmanp
The tapeless system (A PC BASED FRENCH SYSTEM) operates as follows:
-it allows detailed descriptions with media fields for advanced searches
-it allows producers to make stringouts of media
-it allows producers and AEs to create clip bins with desired media
-it does a bunch of other needless crap, etc, etc,
-xmls are then created which point to media in clip bins and stringouts
-xmls can be imported to FCP and allow the editors to use that media

This can all be done with X-SAN and FCP alone. Seems like a few bucks spent on a "workflow" consultant would save everyone a ton of pain. When we switched to FCP from Avid a few years ago, one of the very things that appealed to us is that we could get rid of the cumbersome "Media Manager Select" system that allowed producers to create these stringouts and just put an iMAC with FCP on their desks. Suddenly, we stopped writing "scripts" and started just passing stringouts (with the actual media attached) on to the editorial team. This workflow has been very successful for us, and it could work for you too. Somebody just needs to "think different".

Good luck.

Mark

What is this mysterious French tapeless system called?

Martin Baker
[www.digital-heaven.co.uk]
Unique plug-ins and tools for Apple Pro Apps

After the first couple of lessons in using the tapeless system one of the editors said "Wouldn't it be easier to just train the producers to use FCP".

I normally wouldn't care about giving out the name of the system, but my post sup advised me not too. Thats why I was a little cryptic in my original question. The system is new and has never been used the way we are using it. Its made for news rooms like CNN or even a local station, but not for a daily show like ours.