Best result to Digibeta

Hi folks-

I am looking for links or tutorials (I have found SOME stuff in FAQ's) on print to video a FCP2 mixed timeline (720p 60) using my Kona Lhe card. Rented the deck already. Destination: dvd extra's. Length 60 minutes.

I want to preserve as much quality as possible (obviously). My concerns are- if any of you recall my earlier posts with regard to graphics on export- I have had bad results using compression (DVCPro) while exporting text and graphics. The solution for me before was to export from a Kona 8 bit uncompressed. Big file though. At the post house with fiber optics it was fine. At my station where it is firewire, I think gatting a full smooth output will be difficult.

I plan to export the full movie so that the computer only has to look in one place to ensure the fastest respone time. I know that I can down rez to an NTSC first so that the computer is reading a smaller file. I just hate to let the computer make the downrez choices for me. Seems that on the Digibeta some nicer elements (color, clarity) might remain if I print to video a better quality image. Am I wrong on this?

Anyway, reading up on it now and any expertise or links would be appreciated.

Thanks a million.

Troy Christian

G5 Quad, 8GB RAM, FCP HD Suite 2 6.0.5, OSX 10.5.6
AJA LHe card

Christian,

The beauty of owning a Kona card is you call Tech Support and ask THEM ...they know best how to do this & they are more than willing to help with ANY Kona-related questions (main reason I bought an LHe and recommended my work studio do the same for my new OctoCore).

Joey

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Good idea Joey.... but ... what if I need to output tomorrow?

Troy Christian

G5 Quad, 8GB RAM, FCP HD Suite 2 6.0.5, OSX 10.5.6
AJA LHe card

OOOooops....you didn't happen to mention that Don't know then, my friend to be honest. You are at 720p 60fps...what is your compressor in your timeline set to? Is everything on one stream? Your first problem is exporting a mixed timeline (a huge one at that) from a firewire drive. I can practically guarantee dropped frames.

Anything I put out for DVD is ALWAYS built in a 720x480 timeline. You can try exporting a DVCPRO50 file at 720x480 for encode. Quality would twice as good as regular DV (no jaggies). I don't know what your target is (glass master? demo? bla-bla-bla).

Joey

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Just set the SECONDARY output in the Kona control panel to 525i29.97. This will donwconvert whatever your timeline is, and make 59.94 into 29.97...even make 23.98 into 29.97 by adding pulldown. It does it beautifully.

In the Kona CP, right-click or control-click on the ANALOG OUT (green one on the bottom) and choose 525i29.97.

Easy peesy man.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

I didn't want to do to 720x480 yet as there is a ton of HD footage and I may go to broadcast with - just din't want to down rez yet. Compression is currently set to DVCPro 720p 60. As mentioned I have had bad lick with that setting and graphics. I'll do a test with your suggestion for sure (dvcpro50). Definitely planning to export then drop in a new sequence from an Internal hard drive then do afew tests to see what keeps the jaggies out. Then output. I built a couple fade to blacks in on purpose so that I can do it in segments if needed.

Troy Christian

G5 Quad, 8GB RAM, FCP HD Suite 2 6.0.5, OSX 10.5.6
AJA LHe card

LOVE IT!!! Thanks Shane!

Troy Christian

G5 Quad, 8GB RAM, FCP HD Suite 2 6.0.5, OSX 10.5.6
AJA LHe card

Duh. Crap. I just noticed the TITLE of your post (Best result to Digibeta). Now that I know your timeline is DVCProHD, no need to try the DVCPro50 because you are already at DVCPro100 (twice the rez). I'm an idiot tonight...no help whatsoever.

...and Shane is a god (and a fast typer, too)

Joey

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

...now don't go givin' Shane a complex now ....

Troy Christian

G5 Quad, 8GB RAM, FCP HD Suite 2 6.0.5, OSX 10.5.6
AJA LHe card

Shane- you did say ease peesy, right? I am on my fifth attempt with no luck.

Tried the timeline itself 720p
I have exported the movie at current settings and reimported to facilitate and that won't go either. Also, I am working in 16x9 ... I should be getting black bars on top and bottom, yes?

Thanks for any trouble shooting help...

Signed,

Sinking in North Hills

Troy Christian

G5 Quad, 8GB RAM, FCP HD Suite 2 6.0.5, OSX 10.5.6
AJA LHe card

> I am working in 16x9 ... I should be getting black bars on top and bottom, yes?

The Kona card has multiple options for outputting to a 4:3 frame. You can go "Crop" (which will basically pan-and-scan and you'll lose the sides) or "Letterbox". Check your Kona control settings.

> I have exported the movie at current settings and reimported to facilitate and that won't go
> either.

Gotta give more details than that. What do you mean "won't go"? No image on the DigiBeta deck? 525 options missing? What is it?


www.derekmok.com

What is happening? HOW is it not working?

Black bars on the top and bottom? Uh...no. This is a 16:9 anamorphic project...it will output anamorphic. Guess I didn't think about that one. When we have dubs made, the dub facility makes it letterboxed.

And I am not in front of my FCP machine right now to look at the Kona preferences to see where you set it to Letterbox it upon output. It is there.

DUDE! Call AJA...now. They have great tech support. And it's free. Use them.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

First time dropped frames. Second time stopped altogether. ect.

I am laying back as I type (which is tough enough for me!) and seems to be rolling along. I unchecked the warn next time box....

Troy Christian

G5 Quad, 8GB RAM, FCP HD Suite 2 6.0.5, OSX 10.5.6
AJA LHe card

If I don't succeed on this try I'll call AJA. I feel like the guy at the mechanic right now though .... It makes this noise .... "What noise?"

Suddenly seems to be playing nice ... only 50 minutes to go. I'll let you know...

...and thanks as always

Troy Christian

G5 Quad, 8GB RAM, FCP HD Suite 2 6.0.5, OSX 10.5.6
AJA LHe card

FCP's dropped-frame warning can be hyper-sensitive. In many cases, it gives you a warning but there's no visible problem. It's worth a shot to ignore the dropped-frame warning from time to time...just check your output afterwards veeeery carefully.

And yes, call AJA. I've gotten tech support from Rudy twice. Terrific knowledge as well as attitude, and pretty speedy response as well.


www.derekmok.com

I unchecked the warn next time box....

NO YOU DIDN'T! Don't you tell me you did that! That doesn't PREVENT them dude, that just means that you will lay them down and FCP won't warn you that it happened. VERY BAD IDEA.

Stop now...re-check that and try again.

What sort of drive is your media stored on?


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Internal drive

Troy Christian

G5 Quad, 8GB RAM, FCP HD Suite 2 6.0.5, OSX 10.5.6
AJA LHe card

Gotta present a tape today. I have more stock so when I finish this out I will recheck and do over. Thanks Shane.

Troy Christian

G5 Quad, 8GB RAM, FCP HD Suite 2 6.0.5, OSX 10.5.6
AJA LHe card

Mine is a 60 minute movie.
I export using current settings
Reimported into the exact same timeline and still had to render.
Then, once I clicked print to video, it re rendered to the tune of 2 hours. That just doesn't seem right to me. Is it re rendering because it has to re build each frame with black at top and bottom (letterbox for NTSC)

Seems like "we ain't fakin' - a whole render goin' on...uh huh huh" the quote the KING

Troy Christian

G5 Quad, 8GB RAM, FCP HD Suite 2 6.0.5, OSX 10.5.6
AJA LHe card

Troy

I suggested you call Aja Tech Support on Saturday (post #2)...you said it needed to be output on Sunday (post #3). Here we are Tuesday - still working on it (post #19). You could have called yesterday & been finished by now. CALL AJA!!! NOW!!!

Joey

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

> Mine is a 60 minute movie.
> I export using current settings
> Reimported into the exact same timeline and still had to render.

Alarm bells!
Something doesn't match. My first guess would be frame rates.
Did you try just copying your original timeline and pasting, then deleting all the contents from the copy? That's a good way to make sure your settings match the old timeline.

> That doesn't PREVENT them dude, that just means that you will lay them down and FCP
> won't warn you that it happened. VERY BAD IDEA.

What Shane says is true...but I've also had outputs for broadcast delivery where FCP screamed its head off claiming dropped frames, but nothing can be seen on the video, and QC didn't reject the tape either. No, turning off the warning doesn't prevent dropped frames, but the warning can be a bit oversensitive. Normally it's good to leave it on, but I've on occasion performed successful tape outputs without it.

Also notably, using a SATA RAID and Uncompressed SD, I've never had "phony dropped frames". So, something could well be off with your system. Did you render everything and perform Audio Mixdown before exporting the QuickTime movie?

And use Edit to Tape instead of Print to Video.


www.derekmok.com

>I suggested you call Aja Tech Support on Saturday (post #2)...you said it needed to be output >on Sunday (post #3). Here we are Tuesday - still working on it (post #19). You could have called >yesterday & been finished by now. CALL AJA!!! NOW!!!

What - and miss out on all the love from you guys?? No, seriuosly. it was supposed to done Sunday. My client is thrilled BTW. I am in one of those places wher I seem to be one little step away - like I might be able to figure it out on my own ...

I DID however, get one clean copy out. Had the dropped frame warning turned off. I have watched it back and there are no visible frame drops. So that is good. I am ... wait ... oh Sh_ _!

WOW - my sincere apologies for this. I just updated my profile to reflect the fact that this is my first FCP 6 project (6.0.1). Which is why the whole render thing is confusing to me. I think I stated it in my first post but I know it is impossible to troubleshoot without the correct info.

Anyway, my steps that worked were:
Export QT Movie, current settings. Re import. Drop back into same timeline. (Needs render - yellow. I am not sure how the settings would be off in this case). Print to video, it re writes it again before the start recorder option to the tune of 2 hours. BUT, it plays out fine in this case

Definitely the long way home it seems. I will call AJA now and see what they have to say.

Thanks for all the help gents..

Troy Christian

G5 Quad, 8GB RAM, FCP HD Suite 2 6.0.5, OSX 10.5.6
AJA LHe card

Quote

I DID however, get one clean copy out. Had the dropped frame warning turned off.

...living dangerously. I don't recommend that...that warning is there for a reason, my friend.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Exporting with it on now.

Troy Christian

G5 Quad, 8GB RAM, FCP HD Suite 2 6.0.5, OSX 10.5.6
AJA LHe card

A thanks to all. Shane you were right. After I got settings straight and exported then brought back in, it played out like a dream. 4 1 hour laybacks- no dropped frames. Is that a record? Dunno.... could be....

And Joey, I did end up speaking with AJA - and you were right also. Helpful and right there. It is safe to say that I won't start another unknown process until I speak with them first.

Anyway, a sincere thanks for the help as always.

Troy

On a side note, this morning I fiinished the "making of" of the movie I directed and cut and you all were very helpful in bringing my first feature to fruition!

Troy Christian

G5 Quad, 8GB RAM, FCP HD Suite 2 6.0.5, OSX 10.5.6
AJA LHe card

...expecting tickets to the premiere

Joey

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

You might not wanna see it ... pretty controversial. I had choreographed a movie starring Parker Posey Chris Kattan & Malcom Gets (adam & steve). When the film company landed the rights to the film version of the 5th longest running off-broadway musical in history called - get this - Naked Boys Singing! (and it is for the most part just that). They called me to help. Wow... seen more naked boys singing (and flopping) that I had ever planned on this life. And we shot in HD!!!Good project for me though in that I got to re stage, re choreograph, direct AND edit the piece - basically use my whole skill set. Whew! Boy am I exhausted though. Learned a ton enroute and as they say "any publicity is good publicty". Sooooo .... it could end up being fairly high profile. And with the Making of Featurette that I am REALLY happy with (and happy with the fully clothed or masked aspect of it) I have made 2 films in 10 months! Call me crazy! Opens in NYC on Oct 12th, LA Oct 19th, Chicago in November. 10 Film Festivals have booked it already. Joey, I'll be in Ft Lauderdale for the IFF (I think it is called "International Film Festival" Oct 29th to speak on how i survived er I mean did it.

Anyway, thats the story .... man! Next? Naked Girls Bouncing trampolines ... needing a little balance!

Troy Christian

G5 Quad, 8GB RAM, FCP HD Suite 2 6.0.5, OSX 10.5.6
AJA LHe card