FCP setup for DVCPRO HD documentary

Hi all,

Long time FCP user, new to HD, new to this forum. I'm starting post on a documentary of mine, which will mix HD and archival footage (Roughly 4 hours raw interview footage shot with Panasonic HDX900 at 1080i).

I've always used other FCP systems (not my own), so this is the first time buying a system. I also plan to use After Effects in the project. Haven't decided on doing an outside online session or not. I plan on renting a deck for digitizing and outputs.

I'm looking for recommendations as to the right setup in terms of Box, drive space, processor, etc. Also whether an AJA KONA card or similar is necessary. Any info or links that indicate how much space HD footage takes up on a drive (compressed vs. uncompressed) would be great. I considered down-converting to DVCAM for offline, but from my research this seems unnecessary (right?)

Ideally the package would be under 10K. If this is a pipe dream, then I'd love to hear what you would do to manage that (i.e. what you would keep, not purchase, etc.).

Many thanks for the help!

RM

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I considered down-converting to DVCAM for offline

Waste of time IMO.

You'll need about 43GB per hour for DVCproHD (aka DVCPRO100). So 4x 43Gb is 178GB So you'll need at least a 250GB HDD to allow enough for % free for good disk performance. Also take into account renders and extras so I'd go for at least 500GB.

DVCproHD runs at 12.5MB per sec so a single SATAII HDD via FW800 disk will suffice for DVCproHD editing however I would always suggest a 4 or 5 disk RAID via FW800, eSATA or FibreChannel would be a better experience and far less sluggish. Positively enjoyable actually.

Also look into a RAID with RAID 5 or a separate RAID or JBOD to backup the project and files (if within your budget). It can save hours of redigitising (plus re-hiring a deck, your time, etc) in case of data loss or corruption or drive failure.

As far as a Mac - any of the MacPros will do. In fact I do it on my MacBookPro too so if you need a laptop...

If you choose the FW800 RAID option - get a separate FW800 card if you choose the eSATA or Fibrechannel option you will need a card anyway.

Kona or Blackmagic? If you are thinking of onlining it yourself and using a Broadcast monitor to preview the edit then yes.

eSATA option as a guide:

Entry level MacPro 2.8 8core: $2,799.00 [store.apple.com]

Highpoint RocketRAID 2522 card $374.73: [www.highpoint-tech.com]
or Caldigit: [www.caldigit.com]

[www.ncixus.com]

External eSATA RAID allow $2000 to $4000 (depending on specs) for a 2TB RAID and cables

Blackmagic Multibridge Pro? $1,595

Broadcast HD monitor: $3000 ish

Sound Monitors: $500

Looking at c. $7269

Cables and extras like buying FCS2 maybe another $2000 all in under $10,000 (Tax free if you buy in Texas I gather! )

Search around and maybe do a deal with a supplier to get it all from one place saving you time and hopefully some money.



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Ben...is the British school system THAT bad? What is wrong with your Math?

$2800 for MacPRo
$200 for additional 2GB RAM (that you forgot)
$1600 Decklink Multibridge Pro
$500 Speakers
$3000 HD monitor (Actually more like $3600)
$2000 External RAID

$10,100

$200-$500 for Mixer (also left out)

$10,600

Base system without HD Monitor and External Raid is $5300. Add the Raid and we have your number. SANS HD monitor...which is a HUGE expense.

Get an iPhone and use the calculator. That's what I did.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Shane, you still like the $1K MXO as a color-correcting alternative on a 23" ACD?

- Loren
Today's FCP keytip:
Instantly find Next/Previous timeline Gaps with Shift/Option -G !

Final Cut Studio 2 KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

Yes I do. If you capture via firewire, it is something you should definately look at.

[library.creativecow.net]


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Much obliged to everyone who wrote in. Couple more questions:

1) So you wouldn't recommend a Kona / Black card if I'm not onlining myself? I'm leaning towards doing a session.

2) After reading above comments, I'm leaning towards offlining without a monitor and then renting one to check stuff before my online session. What is your experience with doing a session and incorporating After Effects comps, etc? Does working without a monitor complicate this greatly? (last film I made had basically no effects, it was a straightforward session).

Thanks again.

RepoMan

Maths? oops I left out the Monitor... too busy trying not to drool over the things I want to shop for!!! Also I have extremely fat fingers and my calculator has very small buttons...

Sorry about that

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$200 for additional 2GB RAM (that you forgot)

- I've just cut several HD progs on a 2GB MacBookPro and although an extra 2GB will help its not an absolute necessity.

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$200-$500 for Mixer (also left out)

The need for an analog mixer is fairly redundant unless you need one for Mic input for VO. Then you might need a decent mic and cables for that and sound proofing... the list goes on!

Both good points though and if within your budget are good to have.

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1) So you wouldn't recommend a Kona / Black card if I'm not onlining myself? I'm leaning towards doing a session.

Its a cost you can do without unless you need to ingest via SDI or output to Broadcast equipment other than via FireWire.

Quote

2) After reading above comments, I'm leaning towards offlining without a monitor and then renting one to check stuff before my online session.

Honestly its entirely up to you, I personally find a monitor to check each shot and make notes on grading and FX issues is a big help throughout the entire process but then I have both an HD Broadcast Monitor and an SD Consumer TV to check things on.

I would suggest a bit of number wrangling and see what the savings are compared to the benefits.

The reason I suggested the Blackmagic Multibridge Pro? over the smaller cheaper cards is that there are so many options for connecting monitors and decks (including HDMI) that it means you can monitor on a "cheaper" HD LCD with HDMI and check your SD version via S-Video to your consumer TV.

[blackmagic-design.com]

I'll be seriously thinking of adding this to my new OctoCore if I buy it in March...

Can I ask you though, are you doing this for broadcast? If so do you do much online? The reason I ask is because it is quite a bit more involved than offline if you have to prepare your master for broadcaster specs. Especially if you fail the tech review and have to redo anything then they usually charge you for subsequent tech reviews.

A good colourist and online editor might be something that makes your documentary extra special (that is if you are already brilliant yourself!!!)



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

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The reason I suggested the Blackmagic Multibridge Pro? over the smaller cheaper cards is that there are so many options for connecting monitors and decks (including HDMI) that it means you can monitor on a "cheaper" HD LCD with HDMI and check your SD version via S-Video to your consumer TV.

yes, this is something I was wondering about, as I have an HD LDC HDMI set.

Quote

Can I ask you though, are you doing this for broadcast? If so do you do much online? The reason I ask is because it is quite a bit more involved than offline if you have to prepare your master for broadcaster specs. Especially if you fail the tech review and have to redo anything then they usually charge you for subsequent tech reviews. A good colourist and online editor might be something that makes your documentary extra special (that is if you are already brilliant yourself!!!)

The film is for broadcast/DVD/online viewing. I've done a few sessions, but it has been awhile. I agree with the rest re the costs. What would you recommend?

Ben,

Thanks for helping to promote CalDigit in your reply to the original poster.

I wanted to chime in on something when you mentioned our RAID card & Highpoints....

You said:

Highpoint RocketRAID 2522 card $374.73: [www.highpoint-tech.com]
or Caldigit: [www.caldigit.com]

While the RocketRAID 2522 card is $374.73, that card is a software RAID card.

The CalDigit RAID card is 100% hardware RAID. (Ours is $549.00)

See the difference here:

[www.caldigit.com]#

(Click on the graphic below "100% Hardware RAID" on our page)

Just helping to educate people on the differences between software & hardware RAID. We think this is important to making an informed purchase decision, to KNOW what you're getting into.

if you had a kona card would you be able to use that 23" monitor for color correction or is the matrox still needed?
tnx
Sanjay

Well, AJA sells an adapter to convert HD SDI to DVI, but they lack software that allows you to properly set up that monitor to bars...image controls and the blue only option. They assume that you will be connecting it to a monitor with these options. Matrox designed these options because the ACD lacks those controls. So I would say no, not for color correction. For a great looking reference monitor, but not for color correction.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

BTW...2 GB RAM is not $200 through Apple. Not even close. First 2 GB are free and an extra 2 GB RAM will cost you $500 bones. I get my RAM @ Macsolutions for less than half what Apple charges.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

NEVER buy your RAM thru Apple...they charge thru the arse. I get mine from OWC...and it cost $195 for the 2GB kit I ordered...


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Great info, thanks again.

Quote

Thanks for helping to promote CalDigit in your reply to the original poster.

No problem Jon - any chance of getting the CalDigit card in the UK?

I'm looking at Mid-March to update my main system to a MacPro and I'm looking at the options for the eSATA at the moment. I would prefer a hardware RAID controller this time around not that I've had any issues with my RAID via Mac OS X software RAID.

Basically I have a 4TB (8x500GB SATAII HDDs) 8 channel eSATA hooked up currently to my G5 via an 8 port Sonnet with separate cables going to each drive using eSATA both ends.

I know I can get 2 cables for the Rocket Raid with mini SAS to 4x eSATA - do you do a similar cable for the CalDigit Card?

We can continue this discussion via email if you do sell to the UK.



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