2 camera shoot: TC issue

The shoot was done with 2 Sony cameras.
TC ref: time of day.
I have HD Cam PAL tapes that I digitized.
I have 1080i media from the EX camera cards, brought in with the XD HDCAM software and then Media Managed to be converted to PAL 625 / 25 using the Kona card.

My problem is that the Time Codes between the 2 cameras don't match even though Time of Day was used.
How could time of day be different between 2 cameras? I don't think it is possible.
Am I dropping frames somewhere during the conversions?.....

ANy input would be cool.

Dude...talk to me. I am the senior editor on staff at that company...I got them to hire you. I am THE problem solver there. When you come in early you should pop in and go "hey Shane, how goes it? I have a question..."

BUT...I guess this is fine to air out the issues in public so that other people might benefit.

Was TIME OF DAY used on the XDCAM cameras too? Doesn't it really make life a pain when they do that? Especially when , as you are seeing, the Time of Day is DIFFERENT. This is due to the fact that they have to set the cameras according to their watches...there is no atomic clock that the cameras sync to. And apparently the camera guys didn't sychronize their watches like we see bad guys always doing in caper movies.

LOok at the XDCAM masters and compare them to the DV downconverts...does the time code match?


www.shanerosseditor.com

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Hey Shane,

I didn't know you were the Senior on this job. Great news!
I'll swing by around 5:30pm on Monday.
It's a good idea to do the comparison between the XDCAM masters and the DV down converts.
I believe the cam. op didn't sink up properly but the strange thing ("interesting thing" in fact because it's a chance to learn something new!!) is that when I synch up a section of the multi-clipped sequence, the synchronization doesn't work for the rest of the sequence. The TC is still drifting... To be clear if I find out that at the beginning of the sequence A cam is off by 23 frames, even after sliding all the A Cam clips by 23 frames, it is still off by a few frames at the end of the sequence...

Maybe somebody (like Shane) can answer or point to a weblode:

What do these cameras need to chase timecode one to the other? Some kind of common house synch box?

Can it be done with wireless transceivers? I used to see that on film cameras. Who makes this stuff?

- Loren
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There are a few options:
Cheapest/most used is to sync the cams together. Have one run in free run, put a cable between them and set the others to match (free run external)
This normally gives a drift of app. 4 frames over a day. (Dunno how a 50K camera is worse in this than a 2 dollar Korean watch...)

To do it 'right' there are two other options:
Use a Lockit box:
[www.ambientaudio.com]

Works the same as the cameras should work straight out of the box, except this thingy is accurate.

The other option is to broadcast LTC from any source and put it on one of the audio channels. (a decent BWF recorder can output it, and decent soundguys have enought transmitters to distribute, but an Ipod with a cheapo (illegal) FM transmitter and 2 dollar walkman style radios work as well...)
Then of course the cams can run normal record run TC, making the ingest easier, but you need my software to get it working in FCP.
[www.videotoolshed.com]
Good thing about this approach is that it also works on cheapo cams that don't have a TC in option.

hth

Bouke
www.videotoolshed.com

With the Ambient stuff also have a look at the "LancLogger" with is similar to the "LockIt" but it saves a file which compares real TOD vs. cam TC you can transfer to your computer at the end of day. It will work with with many cameras and also does allow an easy integration of external audio.
Otherwise Bouke's software is a "really must have" I think.

Andreas

What you guys have been mentioning is interesting, but the question isn't about synching cameras.
The shoot is done and now i am having the problem to synch.
I don't believe that the cameras could be that far off one from the other.
I suspect that something is happening during the transfer and conversion of the cards (EX cam).

Hi xavpil,

Sorry that both Bouke and I didn't answer your question, but replied to Loren's. But maybe it's helpful the next time.

But Shane finally already gave the answer. If the stuff isn't matching it doesn't match by the cams normally. If even after matching manually they run out of sync you have to compare the masters. If the masters won't match (also with manual sync) you got a serious problem where you can only create a tedious step by step sync.

Andreas

I guess you guys are right. It's going to have to be an eye match to synch up. This is what I've been doing so far.
Per Shane's advice I've compared the master file's TC and the media managed files: the TC matches which means that the conversion doesn't mess up the TC.
I've also checked the TC on the master file from the SS card and the TC off the tape. They don't match, which confirms what Shane was saying, the guys watch weren't synched.
Anyway, I'll see Shane on Monday.
If the outcome is different from what we all think it is now, i'll keep you guys informed.

Thanks all for your help.

Xavier

We regularly shoot on two cameras with TOD TC and the only way we've found to stop TC drift is to use lockit boxes. If you don't (at least with sony cams) you need to at the very least genlock the cameras together and feed the tc from one to the other. Even if you synchronise watches etc. there's no way of ensuring that both cameras are set off at the exact same frame.