Markers Moving to the sequence

Hi All,

I have just joined your group.

I have been operating Avid for about 10 years - but I am about to move onto FCP for an unspecified time.

Obviously I will have some habits from my Avid experience that will be hard for me to break.

I cut promos for TVNZ and because of the extremely fast turn around - I generally don't sub-clip; instead preferring to quickly cut together a "Selects Roll" like the old time film editors used to. This effectively means less clicking in bins and/or reading sub-clip names etc. (although I do rely on reading text for sound grabs/bites etc - which in the past I have typed in with an Avid "locator"

I then often check out this "cut" in the timeline and can easily jump to shots / grabs etc that are all ordered in easy to find places. No need to really go back to the bin - all the shots are there and I can go to the "locator window" and click on whatever sound grabs/bites etc that I want to hear.

Make sense?

My 2 questions (there may be many more in the weeks to come) are...

1) Is there any way to look at this "selects roll" sequence from the source monitor (left side) as a timeline. Or should I just load it into the sequence monitor (right side) and just tab back and forward and cut and paste etc? If it could remain in the left side then it would be one keystroke to cut things in instead of the 4 it would take to shuttle between tabs. (This is taking into account that I would like to be able to see these cuts in the "selects roll"

2) I have been told that "Markers" (which I will use for "sound grabs/bites etc" do not travel from wherever you placed them to where you cut them in. Or is it maybe that the visual markers will go - but not any text that you have typed in.

Thanks for your time, I hope this all makes sense,

Best,

Murray

> Is there any way to look at this "selects roll" sequence from the source monitor (left side) as a
> timeline.

As a timeline, no. But if you drag the Sequence from the Browser to the Viewer, or single-click and then press Enter, you can open it as a clip in the Viewer. Remember, though -- Final Cut Pro can have multiple timelines open at the same time and copy/cut/paste among them with impunity, so you might be better off just opening that Sequence into the Timeline to extract things from it.

> I have been told that "Markers" (which I will use for "sound grabs/bites etc" do not travel from
> wherever you placed them to where you cut them in.

Clip markers will stay at whatever spot you leave them, but timeline markers won't move with the edit. This has been a longtime feature request especially for DVD Chapter Markers.


www.derekmok.com

However, if the clip in the Viewer has a marker on it, with details typed in, those should stay put when you put the clip into the timeline. In order for markers not to "disappear", you have to understand FCP's master-affiliate clip relationships.

If you open Clip A from the Browser, that is the master clip. If you put markers onto that Clip A int the Viewer, those markers appear on you master clip in the Browser and will also appear in any affiliate clip you make of Clip A -- any time you edit Clip A into a timeline, it becomes an affiliate copy of Clip A. That piece in the timeline is now, say, Clip A-1. If you then open Clip A-1 from the timeline, then you're opening just that affiliate clip. If you put markers onto that, those markers only appear on that piece Clip A-1, and not the master Clip A, nor any other pieces of Clip A (Clip A-2, Clip A-3 etc.) that you've edited into the timeline in other places.

However, if Clip A-2 was made using Clip A-1 (eg. if you dragged out Clip A-1 to make it longer in the timeline, then razored it to make two pieces), then Clip A-1's markers will also be on Clip A-2.

Making sense?


www.derekmok.com

OK so in order to "see" my shots in a "selects roll" I need to treat it as a seperate "tabbed timeline" - unfortunately this will take me 4 keystokes instead of 1 (including 2 double keys (Cut and Paste)) ... This will be radically different from what i am used to. Grrrrrr (sorry just being honest) ... A good work around is for me to work to the left of my selects and just copy and paste back into my sequence (remember. I'm doing promos - so only 22 or 42 mins usually to wrangle) .. lthough maye 3 times that amount for these FCP projects coming up.

Re Markers Text... I will be Marking and writing text for these markers on the original Master Clip and hoping and praying that this text will follow into a sequence - the TEXT, not just the locator. So, its more important for me that this TEXT stays with the marker...which I understand does not happen - is this correct?

Cheers

Then try this alternative: Open the Selects Sequence into the Viewer (click and press Enter, or drag the Sequence into the Viewer window). If you have a portion you want, use In/Out points. When you cut them into the timeline, hold down APPLE (so, APPLE-F9 for Insert, APPLE-F10 for Overwrite). They will come in as separate clips as they had appeared in the Selects Sequence, not as a nested clip.

Seriously, though, once you get used to multiple timelines, this aspect of FCP is actually much, much more versatile than Avid. Just the fact that you can grab, drag, copy, cut and paste clips without having to go into a "Mode" is a big plus.

I think most editors who work on both platforms will tell you: You can't work Avid like FCP, and vice versa.


www.derekmok.com

re: You can't work Avid like FCP, and vice versa.

I do indeed want to embrace FCP (especially in todays job market) and rest assured that I will be exploiting as many of FCPs advantages as I can.

But... ..... I don't think its too much to ask that the information I deem important enough to mark and label should remain with that frame throughout.

Note - I just tried your tip (Apple F9) - didnt seem to work - does it work on your system?

and... if I go to the trouble of cutting a selects sequence and my methodology is to recall where I have stored shots etc visually then I should (in an ideal world) be able to source them from this "sequence" without the need for 4 key strokes.

It's not an Avid Vs FCP thing ... its a methodology thing.

When I learned a long long time ago that I could see whats in the "Viewer" instantly as a sequence - I changed my whole way of working to utilize this.

I see you're an Avid operator too, do you miss this on FCP - or is the 4 keystroke workaroun ok - or do you prefer to subclip rather than have "selects"

Or do you do (as I suspect I will) have all your shots on the timeline and just copy them back to the left to make your sequence there.

Interested in your tips,

Thanks,

Murray

I do use multiple timelines for this instance, because I think of the clip selects more mathematically, rather than by "poster frames". I almost never use Thumbnails in either my Browser or Timeline, for example. Organizing things in a timeline allows you to do things you couldn't do if you were looking at your selects in a Viewer -- for example, I can stack five alternate takes of a shot in the timeline with only one active at a time (using Clip Enable/Disable -- CONTROL-B), all of them already trimmed to the right length. You can't do that if your clip selects were in the Viewer.

As for markers, they should stay put provided you apply them in the right place -- eg. on your master clip -- along with the Name and Comments you enter into the markers' information. Go ahead and work and come back if you have issues -- I suspect the people who told you "markers don't stay put" may simply be doing it incorrectly, such as neglecting the master-affiliate differences.


www.derekmok.com

Thanks for your help mate.

No doubt I'll be back with more queries before long.

What I will probably do is re-map cut and paste to make the key strokes a little less intense (ie make it so you dont have to hold down 2 keys [apple]) that should make life a little easier.

What I'll probably end up doing is having my selects at the end and cutting my sequence to the left of this.

Thanks again,

Murr

hi, kiwicutter.

yes you can load a sequence into the viewer and edit from it.
as D says, the usual F9 & F10 for insert & overwrite will eidt the sequnce into the timeline as a NESTED SEQUENCE.
if you want the SEQUNCE CONTENTS, that;s Apple F9 & Apple F10.,
or hold Apple while you drag to canvas or timeline.

if F9 &F10 arent working it maybe that your Computer's System Prefs still have Expose set to use those.
go into System Preferences > Expose, and disable them.
F9 &F10 will now work in FCP


in FCP you CANT have see the sequnce as BOTH a Source Wndow, AND a Timeline,
it's one or the other.
for simple edits from selects reels, a sequence loaded into the veiwer works well.

you cant see to navigate, but the up & down arrows will move you from cut to cut.
use SHIFT + up & down arrows to navigate between markers.
right (or control) click in the Viewer's timecode field to see a list of markers.
in a timeline you can right or control click on the ruler at the top to see a marker list.


using a more complex sequence as a source s, you will probably want to see the timeline,
but you can copy & paste very easily.



Markers stay where they are placed.

this is great in a clip.
but can be a drag in a sequence you are cutting: many people want their timeline markers to travel with teh edit.
but it just doesn't work like that in FCP.... yet.


FYI, here is a thread discussing a bug where markers do NOT stay put in a clip if you add speed changes to the clip in the viewer:
[www.lafcpug.org]


cheers,
and welcome to FCP.
nick

Murray

Two suggestions:

The problem with copy/paste from a selects reel is that often it doesn't allow you to be precise enough. One technique I've used in the past is to make up the selects sequence and open it into the Canvas/Viewer, then when I want to use a clip, I switch to that tab, find the clip and press F to matchframe back to the source. This is where FCP is different to Avid in that when you matchframe, the in and out points from the sequence are transferred to the source clip in the Viewer which is very handy in this situation.

Another thing you can do (if you have a big enough monitor!) is to open the selects sequence into the Canvas/Timeline then drag both the Canvas AND Timeline tabs away so they float into separate windows. (If you only drag the Timeline tab then FCP gets very confused indeed). This allows you to see both timelines at the same time and you can actually drag a shot from the selects timeline to your master timeline or use copy/paste if you want. What won't work is editing from one sequence to another using the insert/overwrite etc.

The big problem with clip markers in FCP is that once they're in a timeline they like to hide away. While you can search for text in a clip marker's description and FCP will locate the playhead to that marker, you can't actually SEE the text description unless you press M to open the edit marker window or open that clip back into the Viewer.

Martin Baker
[www.digital-heaven.co.uk]
Unique plug-ins and tools for Apple Pro Apps

I like everything I've read but I'll add this to the question:

[I generally don't sub-clip; instead preferring to quickly cut together a "Selects Roll" like the old time film editors used to. ]

I like this workflow too. Here's my method:

1) Go through your master reel clip and Add Marker (M or M-M) to create In points. If you M-M you can add a name, which names the select without renaming the master.

2) At the out of each selected region tap Option-Tllde (below the ESC key). This creates a specific Marker region.

3) When done marking selects, drag the marked clip back to your Browser, or a prepared bin called Marked Masters or some such.

4) Click disclosure triangle to reveal Markers.

5) Select not the host clip but *only* the markers and simply drag them to a fresh Timeline.

Voila, you have selects-- head to tail. No subclipping (although technically I think they are.) No copy paste.

To match-frame back to your source you need only the special command Match to Source, which is Command-Option-F.

- Loren
Today's FCP keytip:

Toggle your Timeline Filters bar with Option T !

Final Cut Studio 2 KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

a few points:

- yes marked sections ARE subclips. they have hard defined boundaries.
- if you like you can double click on the disclosed marker in the browser to open that subclip in the viewer.
- matching back to the source opens the SOURCE FILE into the viewer, not the MASTER CLIP.
this could catch you out down the track because if you cut from this into a timeline, that clip will not be able to match back to to a browser bin.
(really wish Apple would fix this, and create a "match to master clip" function)


but yes, subclips from makers can be cool.
there's just so many ways to do things in FCP.


nick