VIDEO PRODUCTION COSTS

What is the approximate west coast current cost of turn-key DV video production ( project design, storyboard, script, filming, editing, sound, voice, music, graphics, narration, final cut, authoring, dvd duplicating, studio) per minute of finished video? no actor talent included. Filming with Beta Cam or HD camera. High end quality production output.

42

according to craigslist, free, as long as you give everyone a copy of the DVD, provide lunch, promise good karma.

Ed Wood or Industrial Light and Magic

42... thats the answer to Life, the Universe and Everything...

Honestly getting a rate per minute for a video production is like the old adage how long is a piece of string.

It depends on a great many factors other than just kit. Besides most people charge by the hour, the half-day or full day and sometimes give a lower rate for longer contracts.

What type of edit? News cut, graphics heavy, observational documentary, drama?

All edits can be estimated but until you have at least a duration on your footage as well as a clear brief with the production designed its almost pointless trying to put a price on it.

I've worked on similar 5 minute promos that don't use talent that cost a few thousand and some into the hundreds of thousands. Break it down to per minute and its maybe a few hundred a minute but then adverts can cost many thousands (without Talent) for 15 or 30 seconds!

Don't forget many productions will also add a contingency budget in case of mess ups or cancellations that cannot be recouped.

This is why production companies doesn't offer a per minute rate - you get an estimate based on the idea.


If you are looking to offer a package, then work out exactly what it includes then what it costs you - add your markup and offer that, any extras outside the package description would usually cost extra.



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"Turnkey?" Production is HARDLY turnkey. There are so many variables there is no way to honestly answer this.

Union or Non-Union?


www.shanerosseditor.com

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One MILLION Dollars!

There is no simple answer for this question. As shane stated, too many variables to blindly tag a price on it.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

i generally ballpark a typical industrial at $4000 per finished minute. but like others have said that varies GREATLY based on project expectations.

as i often tell my clients. its not what it costs - but what its worth. when a client asks me "how much will XYZ video cost?" i turn the question back to them and ask "how much do you have to spend? - but be honest. because if you tell me you have $10,000 im going to produce you a $10,000 video. but if you have $50,000 and you need a $50,000 video - thats' what i'll deliver."

Ben and Wayne are right on -- can't tell you how many "it's a five minute video - how much will it cost" calls we get each week. I tell them if they'd like us to help them brainstorm the video first and pay for the consulting time we can save them thousands at the other end. The smart clients agree.

We've had clients say "oh it's just a few interviews" and then insist on a guaranteed budget - but then neglect to mention 3 of the interviews are on separate days

We had one client arrange 5 green screen interviews in a day -- none of them showed and they said oh well, we'll try again tomorrow - you aren't going to charge us for today are you?

We were wise enough to make sure we had in the contract that "why of course we're going to charge you for incompetent scheduling" when we've paid a crew to sit in your office all day and do nothing.

The most important thing we can recommend - stop being an interest free bank.

Get your money up front - a 1/3 to half before production begins -- a 1/3 half way through - and the rest as you deliver the tape/dvd to them in one hand - they have the final check in the other.

We stopped being the 30-60-90 day or "whenever we feel like paying you back bank" years ago and haven't had a cash flow problem since

Best - Andy

Little addition to Andy's great caveats: Don't deliver anything even close to final quality until you get paid. Some clients simply take the tape and run without paying, and hope that you won't sue them because you're too busy or nervous. They're often right. Watermarks are a good idea until you actually get what you deserve for the final delivery.

> We had one client arrange 5 green screen interviews in a day -- none of them showed and they
> said oh well, we'll try again tomorrow - you aren't going to charge us for today are you?

There's a lot of "soft-positional bargaining" done in our world. Producers do that to me ("It's a low-budget project, can you work for 25 per cent of your usual rate?", and clients do that to producers ("My son was sick so I couldn't do the shoot today. It's okay, right?". We always have to remember that we don't treat clients and employers like family -- it's a business, and if their budget is so low that one missed day (because of their own fault) will blow their budget, it's not your job to make sure they still stay on budget. Bad budgeting should not be the burden of the people providing the services. Otherwise what motivation do people have for budgeting sensibly and reasonably?

If people don't want to pay reasonable prices for talent or productions, then they are welcome to get saddled with amateurs for editors and car crashes for crews. Delivering top quality for chicken-dung prices is just bad business sense.


www.derekmok.com

Quote

1/3 to half before production begins -- a 1/3 half way through - and the rest as you deliver the tape/dvd to them in one hand - they have the final check in the other.

Amen to that.

The critical part, IMHO, is getting the 1/3 up-front payment. It shows the client is committed.

If there are quibbles about it, or tactics to get you to start before it is paid, then fully expect trouble further down the track. Now, the interesting point here is that you can still do business with people like that, but in full knowledge that at some point you will be subjected to demands for freebees, delays in approvals and that the final payment will be slow and probably require, shall we say, a frank exchange.

Just don't allow your cash-flow to depend on clients like this. They can be quite profitable, provided you know what to expect. The amazing thing, at least for those new to doing business, is that they will be back, if they need you, for another job. Being hard and uncompromising about getting your money will serve only to enhance their respect for you.

>Watermarks are a good idea
> until you actually get what you deserve for the
> final delivery.

I couldn't agree more Derek. These days I ALWAYS send the client a preview copy (even if only web-based) with a timecode generator burnt in (big enough that they can't blow up to move it outo of frame).

I tell them it's so they can easily tell me about specific changes by just quoting the timecode back to me but also a downloaded .flv may be high enough quality for some client's uses so this should be enought to stop ''unauthorised repurposing" (I haven't had a problem yet BTW).

2) I recently hired a typesetting company for some literature I'm putting out and in their T&C was a clause that the fee would cover three rounds of changes. I'm now going to start including something like that in my T&C -I can't begin to describe the unforseen time I've spent going back and forth with some clients on what should have been a 1 day shoot, 2 day post job.

3) The typesetting company also had a clause that said something like, "We wouldn't presume to know more than you about your business so we wouldn't be so bold as to check or change any of your spellings -any adjustment to copy after the 2nd draft stage will entail a revised estimate." -another nice idea I'd say -particularly in a multilingual country.

4) In the past week I've sat for 3 hours twice waiting for CEOs to turn up for interviews... one did and one didn't. I think sometimes we have to realise our place in the business hierarchy -just make sure they let you use their wireless connection while you're waiting!

Wise words indeed Baz

good point about the changes, JT.

a friend of mine feels she is being stung by demanding clients,
only one set of changes,
but a very small budget.
nothing in writing or even discussed before hand, so i guess this is a lesson.

does anyone else have a set number of changes allowed before they start charging again?


nick

I know a couple of producers who allow up to three changes - but they also have 'sign off' sections during the production, so, the client 'signs off' on a script, and after that all changes are charged extra, then they 'sign off'on the shoot and so on. They have to agree they are happy to move on before we move on. Changes are fine until this point.

This stops them getting to the end and wanting to make massive changes to the script without paying for it.

>>We always have to remember that we don't treat clients and employers like family -- it's a business<<

So true. I also remind some of my clients that if I don't act like a responsible business and make enough to survive and move forward, I won't be here next time they need something done.

On anything more than a quick turn around job you need to build in approval stages (and be sure to time appropriately such as in person sign off or remote such as web/DVD) and cost for them appropriately giving the bill in total.

If they want to change things outside of that then make sure they understand there will be an additional cost and at what rate - only estimate this and make it clear as they may ask for something more costly than a simple re-edit, a quote cannot be easily changed and can be legally binding.

Any change to the brief should be followed by a rejigging of any budget to reflect this. This should also be in any first contact and in any terms of your agreements.

On the flip side - if you have allowed extra days and find you are completed in a shorter time then you (morally) should give a discount (especially if you budgeted the production) but not necessarily full rate, but I would suggest something inline with your cancellation fee (if you charge it) because of revenue missed through lost booking.

There may be specific contract laws in your State regarding this so be sure to check with a business advisor the legal steps you should take and get them to look at the structure and language of your basic proposal, brief, contract, estimate and invoices.

Plain english (in English speak countries! ) will usually suffice. However most clients will not understand geekspeak or technobabble so be sure to explain everything clearly when going over why a certain effect or process will cost them so much.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

I appreciate all of your answers; although still leaves me a bit on the dark about an amount per minute. Let's try this: 30 minute total video; no actors, just taping people (interviews) in up to 10 industrial settings around the state (travel involved for 1-2 day shoot per site); video of buildings, processes etc. high end HD quality professional output product, music score, 2 narration voices, graphics, transitions, a bit of jazz here and there not to make it boring. How much total then?

You're sort of missing the point there. The point is that there is no "standard", and even an established company wouldn't have a tangible "per minute" cost. For example, one company I work for does a lot of 35mm and HDCam commercials, but at the same time it also takes low-ball DV promos, and we also did a commercial for a law firm that's DVCPro HD, one take. Doesn't mean the company only does those projects, but sometimes it does it because the client only has so much to spend, or the company wants to establish a relationship.

You said "DV video production", but then said you were shooting in Betacam and "HD camera". That already throws three different scales into the mix. If you're shooting the interview in HDCam vs. DV, those are different beasts in terms of budget. If you're hiring a composer to do the music, or using library music, or you do the music yourself and give it out as a freebie or for a nominal cost, that's yet another X factor. If you're the producer who's going to edit it himself vs. hiring an editor vs. hiring a completely inexperienced amateur -- yet another factor. If the project is due in a leisurely six months vs. a deadline tomorrow. If the 30 minutes running time is going to require three months of shooting, spread out. If the 30 minutes will require 50 hours of shooting. What state are you in? Los Angeles would have very different costs from, say, Des Moines. And in Los Angeles, the Chinese-speaking market (which I work for, from time to time) would be different from the general market.

Bottom line: You gotta do the budget yourself, factor in all the specifics of your particular project (your equipment and labour, time, how much experience you and your company have, what market you're in, how many crew, what calibre of crew talent you demand or need, any development necessary eg. script, storyboards, casting...), and charge accordingly. There's no "magic number".


www.derekmok.com

just from what youre telling us, i think youre looking at about $70,000 to start and could end up $100,000 depending on overall treatment style

Your hourly rate for you and whatever crew you bring. Bill for travel and setup time too. Bill for the cost of rental or the equivalent of what rental cost would be if you had to rent but own.

Narrator, you need to ask the potential narrators for their rates. You can't even begin to estimate exactly how much until you know HOW MUCH narration you need.

Who's writing the script and how much are they charging.

Music Score - original composition or royalty free?

High end couldn't be a more meaningless term. WHAT does the Client NEED/WANT? Web video, DVD, Blu-ray, HDCAM, DVCProHD, MPEG-2 Program or Transport Stream.

You can't ask for "the meaning of life, the universe, etc" and expect an answer better than "42"

If you don't know EXACTLY what the Client Wants/Needs and what their budget is - no one can answer this.

Homework - read this entire thread 100 times until you grasp what people are saying. Then ask your potential client questions.

If you cut LOTS of corners you might be able to do this for $10,000-$15,000 but that really means scrapping the bottom of the barrel.

Client writes script and does voice over. Shoot HDV or DV. One person crew with travel within one hour to locations. All interviews at one or two locations. One or two sites total. Stock music. Stock graphics. Quick and dirty edit.

If you really mean 10 sites and 1 or 2 days per site then Wayne's numbers are correct. That's 10 to 20 days of shooting! That could easily end up well over $20,000 just for that.

kjoske Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I appreciate all of your answers; although still
> leaves me a bit on the dark about an amount per
> minute. Let's try this: 30 minute total video;
> no actors, just taping people (interviews) in up
> to 10 industrial settings around the state (travel
> involved for 1-2 day shoot per site); video of
> buildings, processes etc. high end HD quality
> professional output product, music score, 2
> narration voices, graphics, transitions, a bit of
> jazz here and there not to make it boring. How
> much total then?

Okay, I agree totally so far. However, if you go to videouniversity and read Hal Landens articles you'll be informed. If you purchase his program, which is cheap for all the information you get, you'll have the whole video business handed to you to set up. I'm not selling his stuff but I do use it because it has worked for me. Spreadsheets, agreements, budgets, etc. Everything that has been said here is there to be purchased for a very small amount for what you get. However, he teaches you how to fish but doesn't hand you the fish. As discussed here, every client I've done work for wants all my work for as close to free as it gets. When I started useing video university and it's links I started to get rid of the tire kickers and got the serious people. You'll still have people waste your time but I look at it as a few minutes of practice selling for me.
Good luck weeding out the tire kickers and get yourself paid for your knowledge and very hard work!