Combining footage with different pixel aspect ratios

Hi. Tons of posts about pixel aspect issues, but can't find one with my question. I am combining footage that is equal parts square pixel and DV non-square. One has to be sacrificed for the other it seems upon export. I have been advised by an animator to manually squish or stretch the footage to compensate. But this just doesn't seem right. Is there a preset for this compensation? Should I export the DV footage with certain settings and then re-import, editing with a square pixel sequence preset?

Thanks.

Hannah

What version of FCP are you using. Starting in FCP 6 you can mix different formats on the same timeline. Mixing of codecs is possible. On an FCP 5 or older system it is going to be happy render time when one of those formats doesn't match the codec you setup.

In FCP 6 you could also export the mixed footages to ProRez and fix the differences. Not a simple fix, but doable.

I'm using FCP 5.1.4 If I upgrade today would it solve my problems? I just want the footage to look consistent and I can't figure out how to deal with it in one sequence. Should I export the DV footage at the dimensions of the graphics with maintain aspect ratio un-checked and then re-import? I'm kinda confused and running out of time. It's eventually going on the web and on DVD. Thank you for your help!

I'm not saying to jump on FCP 6 but sorting out the aspect ratio problems first would be the best way to start out.

Are some of the Square Pixel graphics from After Effects or some other application that outputs as Animation codec?
What frame size are the graphics? If you set your edit codec to NTSC-DV then it will only get you 720x480. Any bigger formatted graphic will be squeezed into that format size with devastating effects.

You don't need FCP for most auto-aspect ratio conversions to happen. As soon as you place a graphic in the timeline FCP decides whether or not the aspect ratio should be changed. The main thing new about FCP 6 is that all these different formats play better in real time, but certain mixing of formats is absolutely fine in FCP 5.

Here's a few questions:

What's the final format before it goes out to DVD or Web? Is it DV? If so, then use that as your sequence and mix other elements into that sequence.

What are these other square pixel elements? Graphics? Video? If video, FCP should be auto-changing aspect ratio. If graphics, not necessarily. Before I go into a workflow for graphics that will work, please answer whether that is the footage you are trying to intercut with your DV? Also, detail frame sizes of graphics, graphic file type (jpeg, psd, etc) and which application they were created in- Photoshop 7, Photoshop CS, etc.

Also, any aspect ratio can be manually adjusted if FCP doesn't do it automatically. But before we go down that road, a little more input on what all your sources are would be helpful.

Andrew Balis

Thank you for your responses. I'm an out of practice filmmaker always trying to catch up. I am combining DV footage with graphics exported from Google Earth Pro (20% of the video is DV footage, 80% is the GE animation). The highest res export I had available from Google Earth Pro was Animation, millions+, 720x486. I also have some PSD files in the timeline, but I converted those to DV before importing them into FCP. I am comfortable working with the stills and they look ok. It's the Google Earth animation that is throwing me off. The DV footage looks stretched horizontally or the GE footage looks squished vertically. Finally, I will need to make a .m2v file for DVD and a .flv and QT file (H.264) for the web.

Hannah

p.s. Won't everything need to be sq pixels anyway? The DVD will mostly be viewed on a computer.

As far as the DVD, no that should be using an NTSC pixel aspect ratio (non-square pixels). The Apple DVD Player will properly compensate for showing on a square pixel computer monitor. Only when playing a full resolution QT movie on the computer should you have concerns about square vs non-square. Your Web output will be properly converted to square pixel during the encode. While in FCP, stick with NTSC non-square pixel.

As for workflow, I would try and figure out exactly where the problem is- because both of these formats should look fine in a DV NTSC sequence.

I would start with a DV Easy Setup (I'm assuming DV is standard 4x3 not 16x9). Create a new timeline and place a DV clip into it. When the video is in the timeline, it should look correct. If it doesn't I would first start there to figure out what's wrong. Go to the sequence menu > Settings and be sure its set to the defaults for DV. Highlight a DV clip in the timeline and press Command/9. Check its settings against the DV sequence. They should match. Next, if the video still looks wrong, open the sequence clip back into the Viewer window and click on the Motion tab. Twirl down the arrow across from Distort. Aspect Ratio should read 0.

Once these things have been sorted out, deal with the animation files. Are they properly non-square pixel NTSC pixel aspect ratio? Once these clips are placed in the DV timeline, also open them back into the viewer, and look at aspect ratio. Is it anything other than 0?

Also- very important- how are you monitoring the video to think it looks incorrect. Hook up to an external monitor and check that. If you only have the canvas, click into the percentage button in the Canvas and make sure it is set to "view as square pixel". In FCP 6 it has been re-labeled as "Correct for aspect ratio". Either version, it should be checked to properly view non-square pixel video in the canvas.

Also, the animation clips will require rendering for playback. Here's a little trick to edit without rendering. Zoom in on the Canvas window to the next percentage size up and resize the Canvas so that you are just barely seeing scroll bars in the window. It means you are zoomed in which normally isn't a good thing, but in this case, it will allow you to play back without rendering. It will be a bit choppy, but it will work. Also, the video will be tough to playback anyway as its animation codec which is high bandwidth.

Let me know what you discover.

Andrew

Thanks for your thorough tutorial. An eerily simple solution seems to be just exporting with "maintain aspect ratio" with crop checked, though I'm getting black bands on either side. But the footage in both the animation and DV looks normal.

I'll see how far I get with this series of tests.

Hi,
I have a G5 dual 2ghz with 1 GB ram. I run FCP6.3 on OS10.5.5. Hold all my footage on an external Lacie 500gb harddrive. I have watched everything on an external Samsung TV linked up as a monitor so I could see how it looks. I haven't had breakfast yet and need a coffee. Now you have all that information:-
I am editing a wedding in PAL 16.9 shot on a Sony HDR-FX1E. Everything looks great. Then I wanted to add some of the photographers photos to the sequence - they changed everything.
Suddenly my 16:9 footage turned into 4:3. So I finally ended up re-doing most of the wedding and exporting the photos in iMovie as a movie and importing it into FCP and it was ok. I also unticked anamorphic in the clip format as otherwise it was squashed all the time.
Now I've got to the highlights of the wedding and the same thing has happened again. Everything looked fine on the timeline this time. Right down to the export and when I added it to the wedding sequence only the highlights became 4:3.
So I exported the wedding separately and the highlights separately
I have now created a new sequence and added the exported wedding to it and then added the ok exported highlights to it and it looks ok. Just exporting the final whole piece. I hope it works. In fact I'm not going to send this until I know it has or hasn't worked. It worked just not sure why it was so hard to make in the first place.
Highly frustrating and just want to get this project finished. I dont ever recall having this problem before in 5.1.4.
What am I doing wrong?

Lisa Imbruglia


"Getting from point A to point B can sometimes be direct or sometimes has lots of turns. In the end we still get there even if it takes a bit longer."

I can't really figure out what happened there from your account, but this combining 16:9 anamorphic PAL and 4:3 PAL is completely achievable. There's a Wiki entry that might help here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Also, it's a good idea to start a new thread when posting a new question on the forums, just because something attached to an old thread might not be seen by lots of users who could help.

I will just finish this off in here since that's where we are. I'll remember next time about new threads.
I have not had this kind of problem before. It was really weird. I know that FCP6 has the great feature of being able to handle different aspects on one timeline.
I think I'll have a test day when I have a try with some footage just to see what happened (if I can recreate the problem). It will no doubt be perfect from now on and I'll never know.
Thanks for your answer.

Lisa Imbruglia


"Getting from point A to point B can sometimes be direct or sometimes has lots of turns. In the end we still get there even if it takes a bit longer."

One thing first, as I have a splitting headache from the remnants of a cold. Next time, try adding an extra line between the paragraphs, as it's taking me longer to read (it's just the headache from the cold, sorry if i seem like a stickler for formats).

> I haven't had breakfast yet and need a coffee.

I can never handle that. Breakfast with coffee, or no coffee at all. Tea is fine.

I highly doubt it is an FCP6 issue. As far as the multi-format timeline goes, RT extreme (which is the engine that FCP uses to play footage that requires a render) was also used in FCP 5 (and as early as FCP 4). And yes, I do mix formats sometimes on FCP 5, same issues when it comes to speed ramps on codecs with non-matching field order. As far as I can recall, setting the timeline to unlimited RT effects allows RT playback and how much before render is required for full quality, relies on the power of the processor... Someone correct me if i'm wrong.

Okay. Down to the post. Are you mixing 4:3 footage with 16:9 footage? What do you mean by the 16:9 becoming 4:3 (does the footage look squashed)? Are you watching it on your display monitor? How is the display monitor hooked up?

Basically the difference between 16:9 FHA and 4:3, is that 16:9 FHA footage has an anamorphic flag added to the clip. Your sequence should also be 16:9.

Is the canvas displaying the clip as 16:9? If not, hit Apple 0 to bring up sequence settings, and check the little "anamorphic" checkbox.

If it looks alright in the canvas, the problem most likely lies elsewhere.

Hope that helps.



www.strypesinpost.com

Hi Strypes,

Sorry didn't realise that there was a particular format required for this forum.

I did say that I was connected to a tv but neglected to say through my Sony HDR-FX1E. An archaic way to view but works for me and I didn't have any other connectors. Although I would think this is the most likely way to see it as it would be on a tv instead of just using the tv as an extra computer monitor.

The footage squashed and all became fat when I added the photos. In the end I unticked anamorphic on all the source footage to allow it to be full widescreen. Dont know why that worked but it did.

The other footage being added wasn't video but as stated it was photographs. The photographer supplied them straight from his disk and they were 2544x1696 (landscape) or 1696x2544 (lengthwise) and all anywhere from 700kb to 1.2mb in size. How I addressed this was to create an iMovie sequence with all required photos and music, export it and import it into FCP. Then it worked ok. Looked great. Yet the 2nd time I tried to use it in FCP in another sequence (highlights) with more 16:9 footage it exported fine as a 3rd sequence but when placed at the end of the original sequence (whole piece) only it squashed.

I know this sounds confusing - I have been editing a wedding and the first part (whole piece) ended up working after a few glitches. It was when I tried to create the highlights that the thing happened.

I am quite willing to admit that I am not up with all the play on FCP as it is a vast and diverse program. Yet ... I am not using it for the first time either and have never had this experience before. Usually I just pop in my footage and edit it. I would usually consider this program to be quite easy to use, I've been using it since it was first released.

I use the multitracking quite a bit and have even overcome a 16:9 v 4:3 issue that I had some time ago.

Anyway I've finished now. It was a long day getting it done and written out for dvd which came with it's own problems. But in the end I conquered and it's all good.

I will play in FCP with photos and 16:9 footage another time. Today, now, it's time for bed since it's 12.30am here in New Zealand.

So hope I put in enough spaces, pray that your headache finally went and that you are blessed (and Jude Cotter) for trying to help me with todays hiccups so quickly.

Cheers
Lisa

Lisa Imbruglia


"Getting from point A to point B can sometimes be direct or sometimes has lots of turns. In the end we still get there even if it takes a bit longer."