post path for Feature with BWF audio

HI, all.

i'm working on a feature being shot here in Australia, and in East Timor.

our post path is that we are shooting audio as BWF files,
then we are syncing in Telecine, and keeping a CInema Tools database going.

we use the CT database to batch capture from tape, so i am cutting with the tape audio, not the BWF files.

we can use Cinema Tools to create an Audio EDL.
EDL will refer to the original BWF timecode, and reel#
but has only 2 tracks, where our BWF files could have anyhting from 1 to 8 tracks,
and the EDL we produce has the CLIP names from FCP, (or the BWF reel#) but not the audio file names.


so what do we then do with that???
the sound people are scratching their heads.

basically we are looking for a way to auto conform a bunch of multitrack BWF files
based on an EDL that only has Reel# & Timecode as useful information.

i can create a semi-automated workflow in FCP using QuicKeys
but anyone else working thins way, or know of a possible solution??


thanks,
nick

Doesn't Andreas Keil have something that handles more than 2 tracks? Did you check over on Spherico?

Michael Horton
-------------------

hmm.. i'll check again but i don't think Andreas has something specifically for this.

he'll probably have some ideas, though..


nick

Hi Nick,

Why not disregard the audio from the telecine transfer & sync your rushes in the traditional fashion using the BWF's. Then export an OMF file for the audio post.

Dave

a few of reasons:

1- that would require extra assistant time & cost

2- using linked "double system" audio in multiclips can be fraught.
maybe there would be no problems at all,
but maybe there would be.
i'll leave that for someone with a bigger team to find out

3- cutting with a consistent 2 tracks of audio is easier than cutting with anywhere from 1 to 8 tracks

when i heard the post house were offering to sync as part of their deal,
i was happy to go with that.

i;d be very surprised if i was the first person in the world to use this path,
so the answer IS out there.
just gotta find it.


thanks,
nick

Well as long as your log files for the timecode BWF are checked for the the amount of offset required to reestablish sync, you should be able to conform your BWF files to the fine cut by applying the appropriate offset.

Dave

ok, i don't know this process, do you have some more detail?
or can you point me to somewhere i can read up on it?

where would i get the offset from?
what do i do with it?

i'm looking in the ALE file from telecine, and there is an offset column,
but all entries in it are 00.00.00.00



thanks,
nick

Hi Nick,

a 00:00:00:00 offset in the ALE file indicates that the TC from the Flying Spot Scanner & the Audio Player's BWF have identical TC, hence no offset. Check the BWF TC & the Video TC to verify that this is in fact the case & that the Telecine operator didn't just neglect to enter the TC Offset.

A lot depends on the slating procedure that was used on the shoot. If for example they were using the Aaton TC sync system & were jam syncing the Panavision or Aaton cameras to a common reference TC then the Telecine operator would have used the Aaton reader on the flying spot scanner to read the TC & the BWF TC would be the same as the TC on the slateboard & the TC from the scanner.

If the TC numbers differ then the operator neglected to enter the offsets in the ALE file. This makes unnecessary work for everyone concerned. It's easy enough to calculate the offsets if necessary with a TC Calculator, & there are free TC Calculators on the internet, but you shouldn't have to do this if the Telecine operator has done the syncing properly in the first place. After all if anything went wrong in the syncing in the Telecine session the operator would need the offsets to make the offsets & shouldn't be starting from scratch. If the person who did the Telecine transfer was a experienced professional then the offsets will be as indicated on the ALE, zero. However anyone can make a mistake so its always best to check that the BWF TC & the Video TC do match before assuming that a zero TC offset is indeed correct.

As you probably won't be using a TC synchronizer & controller to replace the fine cut locked audio tracks with the BWF audio files as FCP doesn't output LTC, I would just use the Move command in FCP to realign the BWF audio to the production track audio.

All the best.

Dave

Hi Nick,

You might find this thread helps with understanding the BWF TC issue.

Dave


[www.dvinfo.net]

thanks Dave.

they ARE using aaton code in the field,
but the telecine place didn't know, and haven't been using it!

but if they use it or not, the timecode of the audio they sync still goes into the flex file, and eventually winds up in my CinemaTools database. (And burnt into the picture)

so syncing rushes is not really the issue,
what im really after is a process for getting the BWF files conformed to my edit after i'm locked off

at the moment it seems like i need some way to conform multi track BWF files to a 2tk EDL,
which is the only thing i can get that references the original audio TC.



nick