Monitor and Asspect

I once read that 16/9 is in side of 4/3. My tube tv monitor is 4/3.

when i am in fcp monitoring 16/9 i can see the vertical stretch with no letterbox. I am guessing that this means that my monitor can not show 16/9 in its current config.

when i apply a widescreen matte i can see letter box at 2:33:1 ( i believe it is) but the stretch is still there.

i saw some tube tv's that say 16/9 and by appearance the screen is wide like a widescreen lcd (16/9). So, i wonder if i was monitoring 4/3 footage would it stretch horizontally?

if yes, then how do i get a 13-20 inch tube tv that will show both?

is there a pass thru that will do it? when i play a dvd that is letterbox 16/9 it shows with out the stretch.

my buget is 150 - 250, and yes i have seen the pro-monitors but 1500 for a 10" is way toooo much. Plus i currently monitor on a 14" that is fine but a bit small for my eye.

I have been satisfied with my color adjustment on my current tv so i want to find another tv that allows 16/9.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

I haven't the foggiest idea what you mean by "16x9 is inside 4x3." But that sounds wrong.

It sounds like you're talking about SD, since these concepts really don't apply at all to HD. In standard definition, there are two ways of getting a 16x9 aspect ratio: a letterboxed image, or an anamorphic image.

A letterboxed picture is just an ordinary 4x3 SD picture with some scan lines at the top and bottom drawn as black.

An anamorphic picture is different. If you look at it without correction, you'll see an image that's shaped like an old-fashioned 4x3 picture, but it'll look compressed horizontally. Things will look tall and skinny. The image is supposed to be corrected by the TV in one of two ways. A 16x9 television ? one that's literally shaped like a 16x9 rectangle ? will stretch them image horizontally to get it into the right shape. A 4x3 television will compress the image vertically. Both corrections take a 4x3 anamorphic picture and render it as 16x9, but the 4x3-compression method makes the image smaller in the vertical dimension while the 16x9-expansion method makes it larger in the horizontal dimension.

Not all old-fashioned 4x3 SD televisions can correct an anamorphic image. Saying you want to spend $200 on one puts you way outside the realm of professional gear and into "I got this on sale at Wal-Mart" territory. I don't know if you'll find useful advice on that here.

Buy a Widescreen TV if you want 16:9...

But J...

If its for online you NEED a Broadcast monitor, one that is calibrated and set up for ready for grading.

Unfortunately they do cost a lot of money but thats the nature of it because you cannot accurately grade on a domestic TV.

I sincerely hope you are not charging clients for online and grade with your setup!

Besides which; you should have your programmes finished by a professional. Especially if you don't know the difference between basic video formats...



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Well said, Bennie. Well said

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

i respect all opinions, But RESPECTFULLY, you guys sometimes seem to think that the money your companies spend is money that you spend actually. I am pushing twards 6-figures for all i have spent in the last 2 years directly out of my own pocket. I dont mind cause i know it pays off eventually.

I know that i need a broad cast monitor however most that i see are 750 and up and then they are under 13". I do plan to get one but right now i need to see the 16/9 in an inexpensive manor so i can edit more fluently. I can not spend 1500 at the moment. but maybe in a couple of months.

For right now i have to keep executing my contracts because this is how i put food on the table. I don't have the luxury of pausing because of what i don't have. Maybe no one understands that concept but i am in it.

i look at the canvas to place the graphics then look at my viewer to set color.

I have stuff that is online now. If you look at what indys put out in my market you would think that i am one of the better editors (top ten at least). My stuff is always cleaner and better cut than 75% of what i see coming out of the local market. sure cnn and tnt do better but look at the funding they have.

if i can squeak by for these 7 contracts then i can buy the real thing.

Ben, i know the difference i just dont understand why i can play the dvd and see it but not thru fw. I read the ken stone explanations for why you can not see it. It still seems silly but i accept it. Silly in the fashion that the canvas and the monitor should be identical in aspect.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

Quote

you guys sometimes seem to think that the money your companies spend is money that you spend actually

As a freelancer I am the buyer and the money I spend is mine - so RESPECTFULLY - I have spent well into 6 figures for a professional setup that meets the standards I am required to produce.

Regardless - I would thank you for not assuming that I am being disrespectful when I am pointing out the requirements/standards you should be (at the very least) meeting and adhering to!

Quote

i look at the canvas to place the graphics then look at my viewer to set color.

Whilst its a reasonable picture the viewer is not 100% accurate for colour and/or detail and how close depends on the monitor as well. You need a calibrated broadcast monitor on a Component or SDI output to see it properly.

Quote

It still seems silly but i accept it

What you think and what the reality is, are clearly two different things - you'll have to accept that almost all Standard Definition 16:9 recording formats are anamorphic and that you will need a 16:9 monitor to view them correctly.

The reason your DVD player plays back letterbox is because the DVD player has a converter that squashes the picture vertically and outputs a 4:3 Letterboxed image of the anamorphic 16:9 DVD.

A capable visionmixer with DVE or aspect ratio converter hooked up between your 4:3 monitor and the Deck would be able to squash the picture in the same way but this won't be a true representation of SD widescreen.

---

More importantly as long as you don't pretend that you have the ability to produce something you cannot.
If you are not misleading clients then there is no harm - I agree we all have to start somewhere.

However if you are doing online video for broadcast then you have standards to meet and clients and broadcasters will expect them to be fulfilled.

I have had a frustrating year dealing with charlatans (people who profess to know or be able to do something that they cannot). They wasted a lot of time and money and we ultimately had to get other companies to produce/complete the work. Some of them are now being sued because they have not provided what they had stated they could.

Be warned!!! People will not put up with dishonesty - especially in business.

If you provide a service then the client needs to know exactly what they are getting for their money otherwise you are defrauding them and they are well within their rights to claim money back through the court.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Quote

i respect all opinions, But RESPECTFULLY, you guys sometimes seem to think that the money your companies spend is money that you spend actually. I am pushing twards 6-figures for all i have spent in the last 2 years directly out of my own pocket. I dont mind cause i know it pays off eventually.

Ben is spot - as usual. corbet is not - as usual. corbet used the word "respect" twice in that post - you may want to look that term up.

corbet never met us & doesn't know us at all or how any of us spend our money. corbet seems to think he is the only one in the world that spends $$$ on gear and can never afford the necessary stuff. That will set you in the NON-PROFESSIONAL category - FOREVER. You are pushing 6 figures for all you have spent and you think 1500 is "tooooo much" for a Broadcast Monitor? Your budget for said monitor is $150 - $200?? Sorry...ain't buying that one bit & neither is anyone else. I personally never spent 6 figures a year on gear in 5 years time so you must be buying all the wrong stuff from all the wrong places.

FWIW...My employer outfits my suite with everything I need to do PROFESSIONAL WORK (and they are not "cnn or tnt". For my freelance work, I personally purchase / trade for my own gear OUT OF MY OWN POCKET and either fix it myself or replace it. I don't make excuses that I don't have the proper gear because Walmart is all out of Emerson TV's.

You have been defending the fact that broadcast monitors are out of your "budget" for years now. Countless Mods & Members have politely given you advice on where to purchase discount or used equipment and that's still not cheap enough for you. Man up corbet & buy a monitor. We are all pretty tired of hearing about it.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

BEN, thanks for the info. I know that you are a freelancer telling me correctly. Maybe i need ta throw my favorite penny loafers away and buy the cohans or the johnston murphy's.

I have been using the same 2 TV's for monitors since 04. I know it well so i know what i can produce from it. Its kinda like my studio monitors. I have been using the same exact brand and model since 1991. When i do a mix with other speakers it never seems as sweet without using those speakers.

My eye has adjusted to this old tube and i know what its gonna look like in the end. I had my first 2 online submissions turned down and the guy who turned it down was kind enough to take my hard drive to his set up and color correct it in a new TL so that i would have a before and after of the project.

I studied what he had done and still have that project loaded today. it showed me the nuances that my monitor had and i have kept those nuances in mind every since. None of my submissions have been turned down since ( 29 submissions in the last 2 years 36 total 5.5yr career).

Imagine that you purchased heavy stock in IndyMac(NDE) and you just got the news that the corp has just failed with your $XX,XXX in it at the time. I guess thats why i am extra sensitive on the money front right now. SO SORRY.

Ben & Jeff i would never want to disrespect you or anyone here accept joe. I have tried all i could with joe but he seems to think that he has to insult me and give no real info with the insult. So know that my comments were more leaning that way. He knows what he is doing i know but his delivery of info is combative and always has been.

Joe did you know that if you threw a rock into a pack of wild dogs they would all bark a bit but the one that actually got hit would bark the loudest.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

Ok. All that needs to be said has been said. Lets move on and close this thread.

Michael Horton
-------------------