What to Charge?

Hi everyone -
Can someone give me an idea what to charge a CEO who's coming for a 4-hour immersion in FCP6? I teach it at the university here, and don't know what to charge by the hour for this. I mean, tutors at Berkeley charge up to a whole whopping $22/hr. But somehow this doesn't seem right.

At the U I'm paid a whopping $36/hr, but that's a lecture, and of course one hour equals 4+ hours of homework and my unpaid lab assistance there.

Any advice?

PS He's bringing his camera and mac, so I'm just providing a desk and me.

> I mean, tutors at Berkeley charge up to a whole whopping $22/hr. But somehow this doesn't
> seem right.

No, it doesn't. Seems too low for me. I'd charge what you'd charge for editing. It's going to depend on your qualifications and rates as an editor, of course, and nobody says you can't give deals to people if you so choose. I'm doing a friend's acting reel for free. If he's a CEO, I wonder if you should really give him that much of a deal? Does he make less money than you? Being good-hearted is one thing, giving deals to people who need them is another!


www.derekmok.com

A CEO? Who wants to learn Final Cut? I'm guessing without any background in production at all?

I wouldn't take the gig for less than a thousand bucks.

Thanks so much. I appreciate your speedy advice!

day rate is a day rate. charge what youd charge for the same time editing/shooting.

im curious though - a "CEO" who wants to learn video? is it for business or pleasure? and how big is the company that they work for/own. seems kind of misguided for a CEO to want to learn production. seems if they are head of a valid company that they would be spending time CEO-ing, and less behind a camera...

Good points.

He's the real-deal who just wants to know at least as much as his "team", who produce work out of town. But I'll know more soon enuf.

I agree "same rate editing" but of course we all know that that varies with the project. So... I went with $125/hr. We'll see what falls out.

I'm adding this post to help others who also deal with this "what to charge" issue. I think the forum is a good way to stay competitive, realistic, and open to suggestions from compatriots.

Tally ho!

> He's the real-deal who just wants to know at least as much as his "team", who produce work
> out of town. But I'll know more soon enuf

Ha ha. That ain't gonna happen for years, hopefully he realizes that. I've seen so many "preditors" who think they know FCP, and when they try to do things themselves, they just *&^% things up and I have to come in and clean up the mess. Well, hopefully he'll at least start on the right foot.

Hey Jeanne, do us all a favour and teach him proper logging! The "Capture Now" folks who only teach their students that have caused me much grief...just like the "Don't Format Drives" folks, the "Subclipping" folks (the ones who are also afflicted with "Don't Compare Tape and Timecode" Syndrome) and the "Nesting" folks.


www.derekmok.com

Good thing you're not in NYC, where FCP editors are overjoyed to work for food,
and the mantra is "Hey, I get paid for this!"

Nesting folks? Nesting not good in FCP? (I'm an after effects animator, and nesting is a key staple)

>Nesting folks?

Nesting is evil...

Lol... Actually, just don't nest unnecessarily. Usually it just bloats up file size, and make sure you don't blade those darn things..



www.strypesinpost.com

Nesting is fine - but agreed that unnecessary nesting is a waste of time and on older versions of FCP could cause problems.

Nesting in AE?

You mean pre-composing!


I think D was referring to the people building a home of sticks outside his studio window...



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

>I think D was referring to the people building a home of sticks outside his studio window...

Must've been the writers' strike...



www.strypesinpost.com

could be... a lot of unused pencils I suppose...



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

> Nesting folks? Nesting not good in FCP? (I'm an after effects animator, and nesting is a key
> staple)

It's Apple and Oranges. Nesting in FCP has its uses, but I've had to clean up soooo many projects started by hapless amateur editors who nest an old cut, then when it's time for a new cut, they cut up the nest of the old cut, then nest the new cut and cut that for the next version...

Oh yeah, and those are the same people who have sequences called "Spot v1", "Spot v01", "Spot v1 Copy", "Spot First Cut", "Spot First Cut 2", "Spot 1st Cut" and "Spot Rough" in their Browser.


www.derekmok.com

D, would you suggest "Miller30_V1_092408"? Now I'm wondering what the best naming practices are....

> D, would you suggest "Miller30_V1_092408"?

That's pretty good...but what I'd also argue is that it's unnecessary to put "Miller" -- though not really wrong.

I'd always suggest:

- Main project file should have no date, and should identify the project clearly -- such as "Miller Football Fan.proj". Just putting "Miller" doesn't suffice -- for example, I worked for a company that did six spots for Wells Fargo within a year. So just putting "Wells Fargo" isn't enough. Identify the spot by its unique name. It's highly unlikely you'll do two spots called "Wells Fargo Ballet", ever.
- The reason the main project file should have no date is that if you did put the date onto it, that name becomes obsolete within 24 hours. Now you'll either have to rename the project every day (troublesome, and also makes your archive a mess), or you have a project file whose date doesn't match the actual progress of the project.
- I do this: Main project file has no date. When I do a manual backup, I duplicate the project file and then date- and time-stamp it: "Miller Football Fan 09-24-08 1458". I stick it into the archive. At the end of every session, I make sure I do this archive. Two advantages: Every project file in the archive has a date and time that reflects when it was made, and the last archived project file reflects the current one. Also, when I come back every day, or even after two months, I don't have to wonder which date is the latest -- it's always going to be the undated project file, "Miller Football Fan.proj". No searching desperately to figure out which file has the latest date.

But other than those differences, I don't see an issue with your Sequence naming convention. Except that if I were you, I'd do "v01". Ten versions aren't uncommon for any project. I usually do:

"Sequence 101 30-Sec 1st Cut" (no date necessary for me; major changes will have a different version number, and movie files I create for client proofs do have the date, as well as version numbers.
"Sequence 102A 30-Sec 2nd Cut Editor"
"Sequence 102B 30-Sec 2nd Cut"
"Sequence 201 60-Sec 1st Cut"


www.derekmok.com

Actually, "nesting" is the original AE term for precomposing.
I took one of Trish Meyer's first courses in AE way, way back, and she
used to talk about "nesting." The word threw me way off. I kept seeing
her flying through the branches gathering twigs.

That was HER WORD...not Adobe's. It's Precomposing.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Jeanne,

i'm terrible when it comes to charging.
i was getting AU$60 an hour for "guest" teaching at a big film govt. school here,
so i asked for and got the same when teaching Dept of Defence personnel.

wow, so the pay in Sydney is better than New York?


nick

>Now I'm wondering what the best naming practices are....

On top of Derek's suggestions, there are a few other things to avoid...

1. No illegal characters in file naming- !?,.:; There's a whole list in the FCP manual.

2. Never name a sequence or project "final". What comes after that? "Final again"? I usually name my sequences by the stages of submission (offline 1 200908 A or offline 2 210908 A), with the last alphabet indicating which was the last sequence i worked on and you'll likely never get more than 3.



www.strypesinpost.com

Nick Meyers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i was getting AU$60 an hour for "guest" teaching
> at a big film govt. school here,
> wow, so the pay in Sydney is better than New
> York?

What's the US dollar to Aussie bucks?

I asked for $125USD/hour and haven't heard back. Alas. Of course, according to some who replied, this would've been a steal, but more than likely it was on the high-end. I may have scared 'em away. It'll be my luck he's already a LAFCPUG guy and has been following my posts.

Teaching may not be the most creative outlet anyways. (does this sound like sour grapes?)

D - yes, yes, and yes. Thanks so much for the detailed thoughts/advice/reminders.

jeanne

> Teaching may not be the most creative outlet anyways. (does this sound like sour grapes?)

I love teaching students, I hate teaching classes. Especially preordained classes at a school that may not want what I want for the students. I taught a small group of students at Columbia general editing (including the software, and also "what makes cuts work", and studying films I've cut or commercial films) and that was fabulous, especially when some of those kids started getting really good and doing work I'd be proud of. Then I taught at a school more concerned about making money than producing viable filmmakers, and that was misery in a box.


www.derekmok.com

I like Joey's new picture. Very mysterious with a touch of suppressed rage.

Harry.

Harry Bromley-Davenport.

In my experience, people querying about teaching rates expect a steal.
Mainly because they are clueless.
Your rate is fair, and don't even think about taking it down. Teaching is intense.
I paid a guru $150 an hour to help me out in 3d, and it was worth every penny and more.

>I asked for $125USD/hour and haven't heard back. Alas. Of course, according to some who >replied, this would've been a steal, but more than likely it was on the high-end. I may have >scared 'em away. It'll be my luck he's already a LAFCPUG guy and has been following my posts.

derekmok Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I love teaching students, I hate teaching classes.
Then
> I taught at a school more concerned about making
> money than producing viable filmmakers, and that
> was misery in a box.

Sounds like NYFA to me!

"Never underestimate a kick to the nuts"
Bas Rutten