What makes project files so freakin' big?

Hello-
I'm fighting a losing battle trying to keep our FCP project file under 100M.
We're a feature length doc, 99% NTSC standard def, ~4000 unique clips, 1.8 TB of media.
~ 20% of the clips are multiclipped (almost all 2 camera, a few 3).
No nested clips. No subclips.
Typical sequences are very much "PBS-style" instead of "MTV style". Very very few fast cuts.
Very little motion graphics, mostly just static lower thirds.

Our base project file with just the source clips and multiclips is around 55M.

It seems that about every new sequence we create (different cuts for different length grant apps, demos, etc) balloons the project much much more than I expect it to, at the rate of about 1M per minute (e.g. adding 2 different 40 minute sequences to the project sends the project size > 140M.)

In itself this would only be slightly painful (4 minutes to open the project, 30 seconds to save), but the larger the project gets the flakier FCP gets (6.0.4).

Doing a Save As does not reduce the project size.

So:
1. what makes project files ballon so much?
2. what can be done workflow-wise to work around it?
3. is there a different way of organizing the project efficiently that helps?

If the answers are no, how the heck does anyone finish a feature in FCP? :-)

Thanks in advance.

-Frank

1. Sequences. The larger they are, the more they add to the file size. Then if you duplicate the cut and start working on the duplicate, that adds. Every sequence you add will add to the file size. Also the more clips you have to manage will add to it...as will multi-clips. Making still frames, speed changes? They add to the file size...as no media is created when you do that, it just adds to the project size. TEXT...no media for text is created either, again, that is managed by the project, so the more text you have, the larger the project file.

2. Multiple projects. One for the sequences, one for the footage...one for music and sound effects. Although the danger with making sequences and footage separate projects is that you can then no longer match back to the bin. So I make music and sfx separate mostly. DUPLICATE THE PROJECT when you make changes, not the sequence. This way you still have an old cut to refer to, but you aren't adding to the file size all that much.

3. Yes...and I have a tutorial DVD that talks all about it. It is mentioned below my signature.

I have worked on 4 feature length documentaries...and kept ALL OF THEM under 100MB.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

I'd also go with shorter Sequences. Forty-minute Sequences can be a bit unwieldy, and breaking them up also works into Shane's multiple-project structure better. Plus, feature documentaries are all about shuffling things around, and 40-minute Sequences are a pain to navigate.

Filters and multiple Sequences blow up your project files. So, try to resist the urge to do too much colour correction and fancy FX stuff.

Also, be more ruthless about what you dump from your active project file. Get into the habit of keeping old cuts, alternatives, and other miscellany in a date- and time-stamped project file, rather than in Sequences in your current project file. I usually keep no more than one old version of a feature in the active project file. If I need the cut from July 29, I'll call up the project file from July 29, rather than having to keep all the components of the July 29 cut in my current project. I also find that this subliminally discourages fidgety producers and directors from dilly-dallying with old versions too much, which is unhealthy for editing to move forward.


www.derekmok.com

What about still photos? These days Apple recommends the original scans be stored on a scratch disk along with other media, but I always thought they were stored in and could balloon a project. In fact they once *did* balloon projects, of that there is no doubt. But I think that's changed to a link strategy in recent versions, but I'm not sure. Any thoughts?

- Loren
Photo scan rates demystified!
ScanGuide? Pro compact reference now at
www.neotrondesign.com

Interesting point about photos, Loren... Hmm... I don't think so, at least not on FCP 5.1- I had a project where I loaded 5 CDs worth of photos to cut a photo segment. If FCP stores all the photos, I'd have a project file size of around 4 gigs.

The project file stores links to media, edit decisions and fxscripts and settings. I'm sure multiclips takes up as much space as nests. And the longer the sequences, the more filters used, the more edits made, the larger the size of the file.

Good point by Derek. After I submit a project for a certain stage (eg. 1st offline), I usually duplicate the project file and delete all sequences made during the first offline... There will be different strategies of working and coping with the file sizes, depending on the project.


>1. what makes project files ballon so much?
>2. what can be done workflow-wise to work around it?
>3. is there a different way of organizing the project efficiently that helps?

Sounds like what that DVD beneath Shane's signature is talking about...



www.strypesinpost.com

sequences sand rushes in different projects means you forsake the ability to match from a timeline clip back to the browser instance of it.

i keep all my rushes, plus one set of cut sequences in the project.


there are also lots of other sequence:
i have a sequence for each rushes bin for instance.
plus a few "versions" of specific scenes.

the scene versions get farmed out every now and then to another project where they are archived.

when i was only cutting single-cam the projects were under 100MB (the first 2 features i did were about 60-70MB)
the last one was about 160!

i was expecting a fair bit of trouble with that, but FCP seemed to behave quite well
i didn't have too much trouble with that.

things that bloated that were:
- more clips,
- SUBTITLED RUSHES (Whole timelines with hundreds, possibly thousands of text overlays)
- lots of markers on the clips

the current feature is TOO big, and has to be split.
it's a drama, so a bit more easy to split the project than a doc, along the "Act" divisions
but still i have scenes moving from one project to another.


the key to the way i work is that A NEW EDIT MEANS A NEW PROJECT.

DONT keep multiple versions of the edit in the one project,
keep MULTIPLE PROJECTS


every day or so, i do a "save as" and date-stamp the project to a back up location.
i then do another save as back to the original project name, and write over the top of the orignal project.

so im always cutting in one master project,
and older versions are archived and date-stamped.


MILESTONE VERSIONS
what i call "Milestone" versons, which are the versions that have been screened, get saved in two ways:

one is the standard save as + date tamp PLUS another id for the screening (this can go in the file's "Comments" field)
this is a standard save-as.

the other way these get archived is in a special "Screenings" folder and they are saved as EDIT SEQUENCES ONLY.
for these i copy my edit sequnce folder and paste into a new project.
why ?
because if i simply do a save as and delete the rushes bins,
for some reason the project file stays LARGE.

so now whan someone says "you know when we showed the film to Bob how he loved that cut you did?"
i can go to the screening version (labelled "Bob" or something helpful) open it (relatively quickly) and grab that section.


DARK MATTER
i dont know exactly what it is that FCP is hanging onto that keeps project files huge, even when you delete items from them.
it's not undos as they wont last past closing the project.
i suspect it's the render files.

i can accrue a lot of render files via "Auto render"
for instance in my currentproject, none of my audio is true 48k,
so if i leave Auto render on, every open timeline gets audio rendered (which i don't need)
so i now have Auto render turned OFF.



apologies for blabbing...
hopefully something useful in there,

nick

Thanks for all the ideas, everyone.

Shane, your DVD is great, I own it and have made some friends buy it! My only suggestion would be to make a sequel (maybe even better: a book!) that went even deeper into the issues with very large projects. There is definitely an opportunity between that DVD, the APTS "Optimizing Your FCP System" and the manuals.

What else can I do? Other than warn about the issues of breaking up projects (lose clip affiliations) I don't really know how much more IN DEPTH I should go. I mean, every workflow has different needs...and I only know narrative, documentary and corporate.

But I am glad you bought the DVD. Thank you.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]