AVCHD to m2ts to QT nightmare!

Hi All:

Despite the research on LAFCUG forum, Apple and other resources. I have yet to convert a video file from originally captured with a Canon HF 100 via AVCHD then converted with software that came with the camera (Pixela Imagemixer 3 for WinXP), to H.264 which renders a .m2ts on Mac Now I have covert .m2ts to QT and after downloading Voltaic onto My G5 PowerPC (OS X 10.4.11) in attempts to open this .m2ts file I got the dreaded error message "Apple Intermediate Codec not found" "Re-install iMovie or Final Cut to fix this problem".

Now I have iMovie vers 4.0.1 and Final Cut EXPRESS vers. 2.0.3 and ahve reistalled BOTH with no luck...and I'm getting the same error message from Voltaic.

Than said, as a solution should I...

(a) Blindly buy a Quicktime Pro upgrade for $30 bucks in the hopes to get Apple Intermedaite Codec, (AIC) as it's suppose to unlock H.264 capabilities or will I get jipped 'cause QTPro doesn't come with AIC?

(b) Buy (AIC) for $ 199.00 and cuss while I add each number of my credit card?

(c) Hope some awesome soul here @ lafcug comes up with an answer that I never thought of that actually works?

(d) Buy iMovie 6 HD or FCP-HD (Can't afford either), hoping it will install AIC??

BTW, trying to sneak around to my WinXP box, I've downloaded converters AVS Video editor, Corecodec & ffdshow trails, and they're sooo cryptic & only allow configuration not telling me how to actually import and export that I cannot figure them out.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Jessica P

I don't think you can get the AIC as part of QTPro

[www.apple.com]

As far as I am aware the AIC comes with Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard...



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Download the free version of iMovie HD and install it. You should get the Apple Intermediate Codec with it.

First off, why are you "trying to sneak around to my WinXP box"? What are you going to use to edit with?

--
Eric Harnden
Quintessential Studios
---------------------------------
[wordpress.quintessentialstudios.net]
[twitter.com]

Eric,

Considering there isn't much editing involved and the main task was converting from .m2ts to WMV or QT, and time was of the essence, there are several freeware or trial codecs for WinXP
that would give me a bit more options than Apple's limitations currently with the AVCHD format.

Besides the Canon HF 100 only came with Pixela ImageMixer3 on Windoze not Mac. Why...the heck I know, unless they were aiming the HF 100 squarely at the consumer market.

I pretty much gave up on scraping cash up for the AIC since iMovie HD6 free download requires iLife '08 which I'd have to pay $ 69 thru MacUpdates Amazon deal...

I paid $ 0 downloading a Corel Video Studio Pro x2 30-day trial which won't give me QT but just about every other format, .flv, .wmv, .asf, .uis, .mp4, .mpg, .m2t, .3gp, .3g2, .avi, .flx, to name a few with many options.

This was a web project which could take either QT or WMV, so I had a choice in this case...

JP

[WARNING LOTS OF "I CAN'T BELIVE IT" EXCLAMATION MARKS IN THIS POST]

I think you might be asking too much if you haven't got a recent version of iMovie and/or FCP or the Mac OS.

Seriously Jessica!

If you are using software that is over 4 and a half years old, on an Operating system that is over a year old, with a format that has only just been released!!!!!...

...then expect to get things for free, I really think you may be living in the wrong century. Planned obsolescence has been around in the US since the 1950s so you should be used to it by now! Upgrade, improve and drive the industry forwards!

Yes, admittedly you get a lot of free stuff on the PC (and Mac) but those kids programming these apps don't make any money for their hard work (especially if its shareware and people don't send them money after using it to make money themselves!).

In effect they screw themselves and ultimately the industry we all work in, as people expect things for nothing. Wrong wrong wrong! Pay your way in this world! Lest you be as bad as the big corporations taking what isn't theirs!

Now don't think I am out of touch with your predicament - I understand all too well it can be hard to find the money for things - I started out with next to nothing - no rich parents to buy my stuff - I worked damn hard, saved and on occasion (when absolutely necessary) took a small loan to cover the cost of equipment to enable me to work.


BUT!

If this project isn't worth upgrading for a few dollars - begged, borrowed or saved (ultimately having the ability to do more projects like this in the future) then stick to using DV and HDV.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

>Upgrade, improve and drive the industry forwards!

That's pretty much the case the moment editing went to computers. The rate of change increases, and although it may seem cheaper initially, you need to constantly upgrade your gear to cope with newer formats, and that aside, do more with your machine.. You can no longer buy that Steinbeck and sit with it in a cave for the next half century.



www.strypesinpost.com

Now, Ben

I love what you're standing for and your passion as you wrote in a long-winded reply:

Ben King Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> I think you might be asking too much if you
> haven't got a recent version of iMovie and/or FCP
> or the Mac OS.
>
> Seriously Jessica!
>
> If you are using software that is over 4 and a
> half years old, on an Operating system that is
> over a year old, with a format that has only just
> been released!!!!!...
>
> ...then expect to get things for free, I really
> think you may be living in the wrong century.

but, I think you went waaayy too far in this forum, to express to one single person
whom you don't know, except for my first post, how MUCH money I've spent on Apple products over the years since '93, and what the worth of the project I'm upgrading, especially in these hard economic times that is hitting the videography community & many here in this forum HARD!! I could consider your comments as insensitive and overbearing...however as an entrepreneur who makes her own pay-check every week I'm giving you some slack...

The 1-liner conclusion you came to (your senses) @ the end of the post is correct...the project I was doing wasn't paying me, and to make it worse, My 1-year old MacBookPro Intel 2.33 with VMWare, with all of my goodies, literally went up in smoke! (The left I/O board where the power is shorted).

Took the laptop into an Apple store where they declared a minimum bench/repair fee of $ 1200,
which started me thinking of buying a new MacbookPro that Apples released recently... but in a financial pinch I can't plunk down the $3200 to buy another one at my specs, so I yanked my hard drive out and transferred my data to my G5 PowerPC, going through the dreaded days of reinstalling enough recoverable Mac software to function & keep projects going...but guess what?

Not only am I facing planned obsolescence that's built-in, but the unplanned bull-**** of the Intel vs. non-Intel compatibility that has surround Apple's handling of backwards compatibility plus the fact that Apple is the 800 lb. gorilla in the room that because of their super closed platform approach & lack of transparency to it's users, resulting in many users & 3rd party developers left in the dark much of the time, like this case of searching around the net for a damn piece of software like Apple Intermediate Codec (AIC) that has wasted nearly a weekend much of it trying to determine WHICH Apple product has it even if I purchased it! Thank God for the help I get in this forum & others!

To be frank, I have invested & upgraded heavily & it continues, since my first Mac the Apple Centris 650, (25Mghz) in '93, I upgraded to a Sonnet 50 Mgkz, Radius 81/110+Telecast (First Apple clone with broadcast video turnkey solution), then G3 Blue/white, G4 MacBookPro, G5 dual 1.8, MacBookPro (Intel 2.33), with literally hundred of thousands of dollars of software-based purchases from FCP1, Avid, DVD Studio Pro1,2,3, Adobe Premier+Suite, BorisFX, Radius, Spectra-Infiniti, Protool III thru HD, Nuendo2,3,4, DP1-5, iWork, & countless upgrades which is just scratching the surface....

This model of constant customer upgrades & adhoc cash outlay will fall by the way side, as there is too-much of a downside for good user-experiences in favor for SOA, Saas, and other pay-for-use, web-services models now in their infancy, but gaining traction as user prefer for the box to "just work" with the least amount of becoming a mechanic..the future is service-oriented and will be pushed to the end-user on-demand, eliminating heaps of old boxes, DVDs memory, HD failure & other expendables...it will be like you cable box where you never really own it, you just pay a reasonable fee and it's there...when a box goes down, you'll never see, becuase it's in the Google, Amazon, or whomever cloud computing network...the local VMWare dealer will pick-up you broken virtual box like Dish does now, with a movers policy....

I don't have to justify myself here for Windoze open-development advantage over Mac, and being resourceful in a pinch, as I've had plenty pf Windoze boxes too, (a whole other mini-series), point is, when I download a trial I like, I buy...but the point is that Apple has many improvements to make to keeping a focus on their most loyal user base, who they've left in the lurch many times before, take a look around at this forum for proof, case in point, the iMovie HD upgrade from 6 to 8... and the AIC hole they've left for folks like me to fall into...this is probably not even the best example...

When time & money are tight...and you've gone the last mile with Apple & it doesn't work, you don't have to put up with Apple's shortcomings...it's a free-market, do I have to say more?

JP

Jessica, if you spend enough time in these forums you'll find that Ben is one of the most patient and informed members we have. He's trying to tell you something and I think you may have taken it the wrong way.

The point is, work with the limitations you got. I'm still using a Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5 at home, as are two companies I edit for. If you don't upgrade the gear, you don't get the latest features -- and the video industry is pretty hog-wild right now and coming out with new codecs, formats and standards all the time. And you said the project was non-paying. Well, then, just tell the clients they need to shell out the costs or the thing doesn't get done. Why bend over backwards to give them freebies? They'll expect it every time -- clients don't care about extra effort, they'd pay you for DV rates to get RED quality if they can get away with it. We get lots of "Why isn't this free/available" posts in here and the simple answer is: Very few great things in life are free, and even fewer in a technology business.

So if you're unable or unwilling to pay all that money to stay completely up to date, then don't -- I don't, either, since I tend to edit narrative and don't need all the latest toys. But don't start attacking people who are giving you free advice that would normally cost hundreds of dollars. You're getting free consultation from professionals, so to say that "you're giving [him] slack" is, well, arrogant. Remember, you're asking for help and we're all volunteers, often taking time out of work to help you.


www.derekmok.com

DerekMok,

I agree with much of what you say, we work very similarly, but this forum is a 2-way street where the user's also contributes to the relevance of this very forums existence, and just because Ben contributes as a moderator with his time & wealth of knowledge doesn't mean his assumptions in response to my post, shouldn't be challenged & accepted without a reasonable reply. I don't consider it "arrogance", to show restraint in my reply, and admit Ben's reply bothered me more than my reply to him shows, because I feel much of what Ben said wasn't helpful or even expert advice to help to solve my problem, but pure personal criticism
and assumptions about me and how I resolved it.

The point to my reply is that not everyone "expects to get things for free", and I don't "think I may be living in the wrong century", and no I don't "expect things for nothing", and lastly, I'm not "Wrong wrong wrong" for resolving my issue the way I did, and I do "Pay my way in this world!"...all assumptions Ben made in reply to my post, which is not expert advise, but unfortunate the way many people think, but I'd be damned if Ben's going to label me in this public forum as one of them without setting the record straight.

I appreciate LAFCUG & the contributors & have read post for years, but to register and post myself for the first time here, and get that kind of reply is a bit of a let down I though this forum is here to help...or is it Ben's personal soapbox...

I hope you can understand....

JP

Nope I got you first time around, but to be fair, it IS unreasonable (despite any issues you have with staying up to date/unforeseen exploding MBPs) to expect the latest and greatest for free.

Its a real bugbear for me. I have seen far too many people screwed over relatively minor amounts, that whilst not much for the payer - might a huge amount for others. You could also think about it this way - a minor amount for a big company scaled up over many non-payments (because everyone feels they are owed something for free) might be the difference between a layoff/redundancy for employee(s) and what of the subsequent knock on effect that it has on their families? Is it only me that looks at the wider issues? I hope not! So I don't like to read any excuses or complaints of why it should be more or less acceptable to demand free work/products! If you work; you should be paid - if a company makes a product; they should be able to make money from it - basic economics else the whole thing falls down.

Maybe its just the way I was brought up, but I believe you should be paid for what you do (individual or multi-national) regardless.

Apologies if it struck a discord with you. But you can't argue that it is fair one way and not the other. [Well you can, but hypocrisy is definitely not a virtue]

I now get that you have had a shed load of bad luck - and honestly? You should have demanded they replace your MacBookPro!

Personally I would throw a tantrum, stage a sit-in, write letters of complaint, post on every forum and get a petition signed! If you don't try you don't get.

In the UK you can demand even products that are out of warranty be replaced if they are sufficiently expensive to say - look this is $$$$ and should last me more than 1 year!

I'm not so sure on the US side and I don't believe you guys have any consumer rights body either which makes it doubly bad!

If anyone else reading this knows of any US body that fights for consumer rights then please chip in, because that is an injustice right there! I hope you get that resolved cus it sucks.

Oh and I certainly wasn't berating you for using Windows (usually I would cus apart from greed its gotta be the route of all evil in the world... )


Its not the answer you wanted but upgrading iMovie seems to be the cheapest option, unless you know someone giving away their copy of iLife '08...


I had a thought - have you tried the AVC-Intra apps for PC from Panasonic?

Have a look and see if they are of any use... [eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp]

You may be able to transcode to DVCproHD on PC then convert from there. I haven't tried it personally so please don't get your hopes up! But do let us know if it works then I'll add it to the FAQs!



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Quote

...all assumptions Ben made in reply to my post

I just got the other post Jessica and I'm sure I wasn't simply assuming that you were unable or unwilling to pay for an upgrade. You clearly stated that you wanted something for less than the $69 upgrade price. Then went on about $0 for free trials on PC that would solve your issues...

...anyway - I will again apologise for any discomfort it caused you, I must have got completely the wrong impression from what you wrote.


I've also had another thought (amazing what a small argument can do to sharpen a mind).

If the Panasonic AVC-Intra/HD transcoder doesn't work for you try this - if you go the QT Pro route:

? Convert the video using the free Corel Video Studio as a high-quality MPEG (.mpg) and export the audio separately as WAV (this is because sometimes you can't export MPEGs that are 'Muxed' as QT .mov with sound.

? Open in Quicktime and export a quicktime in the codec you are using for the edit

? Sync up the WAVs and converted MPEGs in FCE.


I would suggest using MPEG StreamClip but you would also need to purchase the MPEG-2 decoder from Apple for QT Pro.

If I think of anything else I will post it.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Or, find somebody who has the necessary access/software to do it for you. Another thing we forget in this age of "all-in-one" editing stations is that traditionally, editors did not have every toy and new feature on their machines. They let labs, post houses etc. do that stuff and get that equipment. A lot of this crap is not a worthy investment if you just need it for one project -- now, if you were renting out the equipment, it'd be more attractive.


www.derekmok.com

Ben & DerekMok,

Point's well taken...however, I did work it out as seen at the end of my post, not on Mac.
My MBP was out-of-warranty and perhaps it had been bounced around 1 too many times, but I am replacing the Left I/O board DIY from OWC hoping it'll fix the problem...I already have it apart to get the HD out to transfer the contents since I couldn't power up the MBP anymore...

I appreciate you following-up, and taking it down a notch, but there was no expectation for "free", as I literally had my credit card out with the confusing task of trying to get AIC but upgrading FCE 2 to 4, upgrade QTPro, or add iLife only to get AIC and a worse version of iMovie HD6, which I'd have to use, with much confusing info on Apple's website. This is the real issue, to seize upon.

I really wasn't sure which had AIC, and to risk spending money, and on top of it Apple's website wasn't clear that if I bought them that it would have AIC either, and I'd be throwing money away...I just happened to try solutions for WinXP, and the solution simply was a no cost trial.

BTW, I did take your advice, (thank you!) and check out the AVC-Intra apps for PC from Panasonic. This application is supported with IntelMac only. Not supported with PowerMac.

Best Regards,

JP

Quote

but there was no expectation for "free"

I'll send you my bill for the Quack then

Quote

AVC-Intra apps for PC from Panasonic. This application is supported with IntelMac only.

Yeah I meant use the PC ones! - run the Windows versions of the Transcoder (I did take note the Mac was Intel only ) Then maybe transfer the files to Mac?

Its a long shot, as I don't have AVCHD/Intra footage to hand to test on the Windows partition of my Mac Pro.

[OFFICIAL NOTICE: - I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of an NTFS partition contained in a secret location possibly somewhere that might be near, or actually inside my Mac... maybe... maybe not... who knows? Ooo will you look at that! A giant inflatable John McCain spouting hot air!]



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Wow, that thread got out-of-hand quick! (but I see it has calmed back down)

And, no, I haven't read all of each post above....

Jessica, it sounds like you already did the project. Is that correct? The point of my questioning was that I thought it would be simpler for you to download a trial version of Vegas 8 on the PC and work with the .m2ts files directly.

That would work for the editing, what it can output to, I'm not sure of though.

Additionally, the AIC is available as a free download and there are a lot of forum discussions that cover this AVCHD problem from many angles. I found that in a single google search, so wasting a whole weekend does seem like a waste when, with better research, you could have solved this issue much faster.

Just depends on what your final output should be, but GOOGLE is your friend, use it liberally.

My advice, NEVER buy anything blindly. Do tons of google research first.

And now my soapbox diatribe:

With all of your past purchases, you should be well prepared to solve this problem much quicker. Unless, in the past, you've just thrown money at your problems without doing the proper research and you haven't actually learned the ins and outs of the hardware and programs that you have bought. Seems to me, you would already have the needed solutions with all of those items.

Are you just fed up with buying stuff to solve the next problem?

My situation was a little different, I knew I wanted to use Final Cut Pro and I knew I wanted (actually bought) to use the Panasonic ag-hvx200. I tried in vain to get it to work on my G4 with FCP5.0.4. But no way, no how. My solution was to bide my time and eventually buy a MBP and FCS2. How's that for throwing money on a problem!?!

I have to deal with the AVCHD thing too, though, because I work with a guy who shoots on a Sony AVCHD camera. Well, now I have my MBP and FCS2 and VoltaicHD "plays nice" with these two, so I'm covered.

I do hate having to keep buying more and more programs to handle these issues too. That does suck, but I have found that that is the nature of the beast.

I understand the frustration of not being able to get files to work properly and trying to figure out how to convert them to something that is usable and have had some of the same feelings you express toward Apple and such, I'm sure we're not alone.

But consider that you are on a FINAL CUT PRO users group forum and "Dey don' take kindly ta Apple bashin'"

Uh... I think I've said enough.... Okay, I'm done... Bye....

--
Eric Harnden
Quintessential Studios
---------------------------------
[wordpress.quintessentialstudios.net]
[twitter.com]

Eric,

Yep, I thought I was done after my reply #4...before I became Joan-of-Arc..

All your points are good...except I'm a Google maniac and did plenty of research
on Apple Intermediate Codec, and read ALL of the forum posts here & across the net sometimes to page 3 to understand the issues others were having with AIC and quicky found a download from Apple's own site version 1.10, but after downloading the installer threw an error message saying it can not install requiring AIC vers. 1.0 to update...which is the start of all the trouble!

I also downloaded & installed Perian 1.1.2, Voltaic-1.6.2, re-installed FCE-2 & iMovie4 but always got the same dreaded message "AIC not found", this is before I posted after looking a buying QTPro, iMovie HD6..etc. This is a case were Google research didn't lead to a fix, so posting in this forum was the last resort...

As far as Vegas for PC would have been a good idea, but Corel Video Studio Pro x2 worked pretty well, and did the job with some of the features mentioned in an earlier post:

inspireme Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I paid $ 0 downloading a Corel Video Studio Pro x2
> 30-day trial which won't give me QT but just about
> every other format, .flv, .wmv, .asf, .uis, .mp4,
> .mpg, .m2t, .3gp, .3g2, .avi, .flx, to name a few
> with many options.

As far as LAFCUG is concerned, and "Apple-bashin", other than stating the facts about Apple from experience and others, where did you see me "bash" Apple?? I've been an Apple evangelist since '93, an Apple's users ought to stand-up for the issues they have in a constructive way.

You asked "Are you just fed up with buying stuff to solve the next problem?" I reply heck yeah! After my MBP with WinXP went up in smoke!

Anyone else feels like me, or just want's to "pile-on", be my guest...


JP

Yeah, this has been a very interesting post. Just from all of the arguing I've learned one important thing...STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM AVCHD!!!

In all seriousness, though, Jessica, I feel your points completely and truly feel this whole discussion may have been a bit of a misunderstanding. I can definitely understand you being offended by Ben's remarks (particularly with this being your first post) and feeling the need to defend yourself. I don't know Ben, but I know "off" him (Yeah Ben, you're famous) and while I do believe he made some assumptions in his post, I truly don't believe the intent was to offend, only to educate through experience. At the same time, assumptions were made, and I can totally relate to how those types of assumptions can make one feel, so you definitely have my understanding.

Hopefully, all is now well with everyone and, more than anything, there are others who will now be able to look at this post and learn from it...both solutions for this AVCHD problem and maybe how to better respond to posts. So see, the forum still did exactly what it was suppose to do!

Steven Gladney

Sometimes the obvious is hidden in plain view.

Steve,

LOL!

Actually, I love the Canon HF 100, AVCHD or not the picture and capture capability is great...
I was stunned when I recording 400 minutes of HD onto a single 16 GB flash card...insane!

It sure beats the 60 minute time limit of a DV tape or even a DVD...when Ben talks about facing planned obsolescence, it's the NLE's like iMovie HD & FCP, that needs to keep up as I think AVCHD is moving more main-stream...just look at the Blu-ray specs. Hopefully we'll see new features addressing this codec.

The forum works, all is well...thanks Steve for your thoughtful post.

JP

Just to add some salt in the wounds... Apple should be releasing a free update for those on FCP 6 that will handle AVCHD/Intra and RED footage soon.



Did you get the clips transferred yet Jessica?



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

Ben King Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just to add some salt in the wounds... Apple
> should be releasing a free update for those on FCP
> 6 that will handle AVCHD/Intra and RED footage
> soon.
>
>
>
> Did you get the clips transferred yet Jessica?

Hello Ben,

Oh yes, as mentioned in the post I used the software that came with the Canon HF 100, Pixela ImageMixer 3 to transfer the images from the camera to PC, which took it from AVCHD to a .m2ts file and then transcoded the .m2ts file to .WMV needed to upload to the web using the Corel VideoStudio 12 on the PC, which I also used to edit the video as well which completed the project.

As far as the work-flow on my G5 PowerPC, I'm still looking at the best options for upgrading iMovie4 and FCE2. I think if I was smart, that I'd wait to get my MacBookPro repaired as it is on the Intel platform and upgrade the version of iMovie that came with the MBP2.33 Mkhz, which I can't remember what version that was.

I would assume that between iMovie HD 6,7 or 8 and FCExpress HD on the MBP (Intel) that the obvious best NLE for video would be FCE4 for the best AVCHD work-flow??

FCP6 would be too much of an expensive jump for me right now, with the MCP repair and all, but you mentioned in your last post, "Apple should be releasing a free update for those on FCP 6 that will handle AVCHD/Intra and RED footage soon."

Do you know how soon? And whose the best resource (pricewise) to get FCP6, as I'm sure this is the only Apple product that will handle AVCHD without the intermediate step of AIC...right?

JP

At our IBC SuperMeet in Amsterdam they made that announcement. However they did not say when the update would be released. I thought I heard Nov, but I was to busy running around making sure Ben had a drink in his hand.



Michael Horton
-------------------

Quote

but I was to busy running around making sure Ben had a drink in his hand.

Waaaah that makes me sound like some sort of prima-donna!


But seeing as you on the subject... I'll have a half-fat mocha coco latte with extra shot and sprinkles please...

...Oh and can I get some of those marshmallows, only pink ones though.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]