Force Quits

Hi all . .

I'm experiencing a repetitive force quit issue. i've used much heavier combinations of filters in the past 10 months and this problem has not arisen before.

The edit section i am trying to render has a number of filters on, including fast de-interlace, 3-way colour, and about 6 magic bullet filters, it's no more that 4 seconds long, i go to render it and FCP force quits, sometimes it gets to 20% or so, other times barely a second or two. when FCP does shut down - there is no message telling it's force quit, it just does it. a couple of times just placing the playhead over the clip shuts FCP down.

I've tried deleting all the filters, copy pasting the short section to another sequence in a new project, no joy. I did however remove the bullet in a previous case and it did render, but this is the final shot in a scene, and I really do want to keep the look created by the combination of filters

any suggestions or ideas? thanks . .

what graphic card do you have?

i ask because in the fxfactory i have some of the filters require a higher graphics card. (512mb or better) if the card is not up to the task you can get render problems similar to what you have mentioned.

Quote
james
I've tried deleting all the filters, copy pasting the short section to another sequence in a new project

is the clip independent or pulled from a larger clip?

if your card isn't the problem you might wanna try to export that clip as QTSC ( qt self contained) then re-import. Doing this would free the clip from its master source and allow you to trouble shoot it better.

i.e.
once you have the qtsc clip put it on its own TL and ad the filters (copy/paste) one by one.
after each added filter render to see if it is rendering. when you get to a filter that causes the crash investigate what that particular filter needs to be operable.


=====
What is the source media and seq settings and how was it captured?

Are you using any particular filter for the first time?

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

cheers Corbett - all sorted now. the old export clip-re-import then re-apply filters worked a treat.

funny though - was handling toon-it no probs . . .

thanks again*

>the old export clip-re-import then re-apply filters worked a treat.

>a couple of times just placing the playhead over the clip shuts FCP down.

This would just about sum it up, it's either a corrupt media, corrupt filter, or processor overload. From the amount of filters you mentioned, it's the latter. Not to mention Magic Bullet isn't the least calculation intensive of filters.

>Doing this would free the clip from its master source and allow you to trouble shoot it better.

Wrong. it doesn't allow you to troubleshoot the issue more easily, nor does it "free the clip from the master source".

Basically calculating 3 filters is easier than calculating 6 or 10. And when you apply a few filters, export, then reapply the rest, allows for easier calculation. There will be times where you need to do this. The only drawback is that you will lose some quality by exporting rather than processing the video through the entire filter stack.



www.strypesinpost.com

Quote
strypes
nor does it "free the clip from the master source"

.

i have learned a LOT of really good thing from your advice. but i feel as though, this is not correct. HUMBLY SPEAKING.

I pull 3 subclips from a master reel and put them on a TL then apply smooth cam. The smooth cam will be analyzing the full reel and not the clip.
If i export one clip qtsc and then re-import that clip the clip becomes a master, independent of the original master. So then when i put it back on the TL and apply smooth cam it will only analyze the duration of the re-imported clip and not the master it came from.

i may be wrong but that how i have always used it.

Quote
strypes
Wrong. it doesn't allow you to troubleshoot the issue more easily

in the post he said that it was the final scene. This is a hard hint to where the clip cam from. By it being last then it must have came from one of the reels he has been using to create cuts for the previous scene.

This doesn't mean that i think the media is not corrupt but it does say that until the filter stack was added he had no problems. So my suggest was strictly to trouble shoot the filter stack since it seemed to be the trigger to the crashes.

DONT SHOOT ME. Its hard to even take a chance on disagreeing with a person who has more experience.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

I've had a lot of crashes with Magic Bullet. While FCP usually handles MB filters quite well, bloating the clip with a bunch of other stuff (CC, transitions etc) will eventually crash it. Since MB is notoriously slow to render, it might be a good idea to first apply MB solo, export/import QT and then apply other filters. Later, if you need to apply more filters it saves you from re-rendering the MB part... a HUGE time-saver.

>The smooth cam will be analyzing the full reel and not the clip.

Smooth cam is different from most of the filters. For one, it's motion detection, analyzing motion vectors. Secondly, it's not even native to Final Cut Pro (eg. FXscripts). It originated from Shake, and from what i remember it was first used in Compressor, then incorporated into Motion, and from there it was brought into Final Cut Pro. The reason why you need to export a self contained quicktime when you run smoothcam is because you need to shorten the clip or smooth cam automatically analyzes the entire video clip, not just the portion you used for the edit.

The reason why you export a few filters at at time, is to simplify the calculation. Also, if you have worked with Magic Bullet before, cool as it is, it is also pretty computationally intensive (as the more elegant filters usually are).

Where the source clip is usually don't matter, unless you are using subclips/nests/reference movies. These may cause occasional issues, as the way the clips are referred back to the source file may be a little more complex.

Troubleshooting a filter stack is a lot simpler. Drop a clip into the timeline, throw on all the filters used, toggle them on one at a time and render.

>DONT SHOOT ME

This is about the rationale behind a solution. If the logic is flawed, 99% of the time the solution will be. Without knowing why, you won't be able to know how to approach the situation when it arises.



www.strypesinpost.com

We had a lot of crashes during BETA testing of Magic Bullet in FCP...but the update fixed everything. Make sure that all your Red Giant Software plug-ins are the most recent versions. They are free downloads - you already own the serials:

[www.redgiantsoftware.com]

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

i was mentioning smooth cam because the script is built to analyze the full reel. export/import a clip and the clip is separate from the reel. So the same smooth cam now thinks that the 4sec clip is the full reel.

true/false

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

Quote

because the script is built to analyze the full reel.

No - it analyses the digitised CLIP not the REEL

Quote

export/import a clip and the clip is separate from the reel. So the same smooth cam now thinks that the 4sec clip is the full reel.

Exporting a SHORTER CLIP will reduce the amount of footage that SmoothCam will analyse.

J - You are getting your terminology very mixed up - Reel is the tape/film reel - Clip is the section that you digitise and you make your edits from sections of the Clips. On the timeline these are also called clips so it can be confusing.

Just remember that its the entire digitised clip that SmoothCam analyses.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

ok

thats what i was trying to say.

the one digitized thru capture and sits in the capture scratch is the master clip.

and the section i pulled from the digitized master clip to the TL is a subclip.

true / false?

I dont work with any other editors so a lot of my terminology is scattered and at times used incorrectly. That why i post those terminology threads from time to time. I can do it but often i don't have the terms in professional usage.

I have started to go to cnn to see if they will allow me to listen in on the shop talk. Sorry to all if its so confusing.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

Back to the point of the discussion, shortening the clip usually won't do much in troubleshooting a render issue. Besides, you'll no sooner abandon FCP if you had to do that for each and every clip on long form projects (okay, media manager will do that, but using media manager to troubleshoot a render issue would be close to insane. You'll be adding more problems and variables to an unknown).



www.strypesinpost.com