PAL video appears darker than it really is...? OS 10.5.5

Hey all --

Using OS 10.5.5 and FCS2. Importing PAL video via Firewire, and it looks considerably darker than it really is. Darker in the capture window, in the canvas, and via external monitor through a Kona LHe.

I tested this out using another system running 10.4.X -- and the exact same footage looks perfectly fine, normal brightness, all is just fine.

So (I think) the capture is working normally, but the system is not representing what it really looks like.

I have learned that 10.5.X and FCS2 have lots of new, weird issues that have to get sorted out, but I was wondering if anyone out there has experienced this, and if so, if there might be a solution. P.S. I have only had this issue working with PAL.

Or possibly a bug in Quicktime 7.5.5?

thanks very much!!!

k

Are you checking this with external scopes?



www.strypesinpost.com

Strypes --

No, I don't have external scopes. But here's the other weird part -- if I send the same video out from the "suspect machine" via Firewire, through a deck, to the same external monitor, the video looks fine. This is what got me thinking that another machine might make it look right, which it did.

What are your thoughts?

thanks!
k

Let me get this straight. You're capturing the video into fcp with a deck, and you are watching the video with a broadcast monitor hooked up to the deck.

After capture, you play it back in the timeline/viewer and you're watching it on the same broadcast monitor and it's darker.



www.strypesinpost.com

YES. Let me be more specific --

I am using a DSR-11 and a DVCAM PAL tape. The DSR-11 is hooked up via composite to a broadcast monitor, and is hooked up to the machine via Firewire. Obviously the DSR-11 is set to PAL. Via composite, the PAL tape looks fine.

In FCP, the capture window shows me the video -- it appears noticably darker.

When I digitize it, then play it back, it appears the same "darkness" in the canvas window. When I monitor thru Kona to the broadcast monitor (component), this darkness is evident in the monitor.

With the footage looking "dark" in the canvas window, I change my monitoring settings to go back through the firewire cable, back through the deck, and back to the monitor via its composite hookup. IT LOOKS FINE.

I looked at the digitized footage in Quicktime. IT LOOKS FINE.

I took the same digitized footage and opened the same project on a Macbook Pro running a lesser OS and a lesser version of QT. IT LOOKS FINE.

Then, i compressed the material for DVD in the "lesser OS" machine, made a DVD, and played it on my PAL DVD player. IT LOOKS FINE.

SO. What is happening, I think, is that in FCS2, in the machine with 10.5.5, something is happening to make the footage APPEAR to be too dark, when it actually is not too dark.

Does that make sense?

I am concerned only because I cannot edit with this footage looking too dark. I would hate to change the look of the footage using color-correction or gamma correction or whatever else, only to discover that the actual picture never needed it, and hence will come out too bright. See what I'm saying?

It's a very strange problem indeed, unless there's something I'm not considering.

And yes, I trashed prefs already.

Does what I said make sense?

thanks!
k

Wait -- correction --

I checked this again and I was wrong -- in Quicktime Player -- in the machine with 10.5.5 -- the darkness is also there.

What happens when you play a quicktime movie out with the AJA TV utility that came with your capture card? Does it look OK on the external monitor then? That would bypass FCP problems.

How about hooking your computer monitor up to the system that looks OK, could it be the computer monitor?

Do your Kona card and external monitor component setting agree? There are a couple of different flavors of component.

Does the video look correct on the FCP scopes?

-Vance

Hey Vance --

OK... so, the AJA TV utility showed the "darker" image... which made me think that I am over-worked and there's nothing wrong at all, and I'm just embarrassing myself. So I investigated something pretty simple. Do the same Quicktime movies look exactly the same, on the exact same monitors, but played from different machines?

I swapped out the Mac Pro (10.5.5) with my old PPC G5 (10.4.11), and looked at the exact same footage. I was getting *almost* the same result as before, but it strangely didn't look that bad to me.

So, I took some pictures. Side-by-side comparisons of what two identical images looked like in QT player, one on the PPC G5 and one on the Intel MacPro. These are taken from the exact same Quicktime files.





I *think* the MacPro image, which is on the right, is darker than the image on the left. It is not "considerably darker" as I thought before, but it is darker. Maybe a contrast issue too (or instead), but I think they look different.

So, it's not the monitors, and it's not Kona. And I kinda don't think it's FCS2 either. Could it be... the graphics card maybe? The OS? Based on the test I did, shouldn't these images look the same???? Anyway, maybe this is nothing but I'm just really curious.

Thanks for your time...!

k

Firstly

You don't have Quicktime set to display high quality on the Mac Pro!!! I can see from the previews you uploaded that they are softer.

Go into the preferences and check "use high quality video setting when available" is on.

Now take a look - you might find the extra detail lifts the MacPro playback so we can have a proper look at this "darkness".



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AHA! Actually, it was "Enable Final Cut Studio color compatibility," in the Preferences, that put the footage back the way I think it's supposed to be. It looks just fine now. Well that solved that little curiosity. THANKS!!!

Now, of course, I went back to the original project in FCP. Is there some sort of "gamma display" checkbox somewhere that I don't know about? I know about the gamma correction filter, but is there something else?

Cool.

The darkness might be that but I can see very clearly from the clips that your video on the MacPro is not playing back at DV high quality in your QT Player...

Make sure you tick that as well!

In FCP Take a look at:

System Settings>Playback control...



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It has been ticked!

In FCP, great advice -- there is a gamma correction option, when set to "approximate" it looks much better.

The only part that has not been solved is what the image looks like through the Kona out to my monitor. It still has that "wrong-looking" darkness to it. Perhaps I can contact Rudy and see if he has any thoughts.

thanks again!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!

k

>Actually, it was "Enable Final Cut Studio color compatibility," in the Preferences

Without that option checked, your footage in QT should look noticeably "brighter" than in the canvas in FCP. The canvas in FCP assumes that your monitor is set to a gamma of 1.8, and compensates for the standard TV gamma setting of 2.2.



www.strypesinpost.com

"Enable Final Cut Studio color compatibility," in the Preferences

Where are you finding this setting? I don't see it either in QT or FCS.

So you have matched everything in the computer, and are just looking to get the external monitor to agree at this point?

-V

Quicktime Pro. Preferences, bottom checkbox.



www.strypesinpost.com

In the QuickTime player, QuickTime>Preferences. What version are you using?

Humm 7.5.5 here on my G4 Powerbook. This machine has FCS1. I didn't pay for the QT pro upgrade, but rather have that functionality curtsey of the FCS install. Is it only in the paid version?

Are you sure you don't have QT pro? Check that you have an export function. You should have the QT pro player if you have a properly installed version of FCS. It may not be available on that machine. It may also be the version of FCS you have. I think it only become available with FCS2, maybe.

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www.strypesinpost.com

Interesting. I DO have the export option, but I don't have the FSC color compatibility tick box. The link Strypes provided has a screen grab that shows where to find the option. It isn't available on this machine. I will have to start looking at other systems. I will be in front of my work machine in a bit and check that.

Curious.

-V

PS. In my earlier post I meant "courtesy", not "curtsey". Sorry about that.

I'm thinking it's an FCS2 function.

Could well be Tom. I am in front of my work machine, Intel octo with FCS 2. There is the preference setting.

I wonder if anyone has a machine WITHOUT FCS but with QT Pro that could look and check. Not much chance on this forum I suppose.

-V

Quote

the image looks like through the Kona out to my monitor

What type of monitor is it?

Is your monitor properly calibrated?

Quote

The DSR-11 is hooked up via composite to a broadcast monitor

Bad choice of connection for monitoring colour temperature or video clarity - composite is the worst way of viewing video!

Do you have at least S-Video cable you can use?

The DSR-11 has S-Video out which at least separates the picture signal into Chrominance & Luminance the upshot of this is better picture.



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