Anybody use the OCW Mercury Elite Pro for RAID?

I'm delving into RAID territory for a home system. The system will be editing RED footage offline in 1080psf Pro Res. It will not be used for onlining.

I'd like to set up a RAID 5, but I'm a bit confused because I've never set up a RAID before. The OCW Mercury Elite Pro says that it configures for RAID 5 and connects to the computer via eSATA.

When I looked at RAID controller cards, they all seem to use SAS connections. I tried calling OCW for clarification, but of course no one's there on a Saturday.

My question is: Does the Elite Pro contain a RAID controller card inside the enclosure? Or does a RAID card still need to be purchased? If no RAID card is necessary, then I assume all I need is a eSATA PCI card that supports port multiplying. I've heard that Sonnet has a good card for that. Any thoughts or other suggestions?

I'm aware that the Elite Pro isn't as fast as other RAID configurations, but it should be plenty fast for this system's use with ProRes files, and the RAID is mainly for insurance since a feature will be offlined on it.

One final RAID question: Would you consider creating an internal RAID 1 configuration for the boot drive? What are the pros/cons of such a set up.

Thanks,

Andy

Skip it. Get a Caldigit VR or HDElement. If you're working with Red footage, it's obviously worth buying the right gear.

As for the other thing, there's zero virtue to having an internal boot raid. The only thing that protects you from is a service interruption due to a failed boot disk. More likely by far than a hardware failure on the boot drive is a software failure due to an overwritten file, a failed upgrade or a software bug in a new version that makes you want to roll back to the previous version. RAID helps with none of those things. Just put in a second drive and clone your system with Super Duper at appropriate times.

I don't think you can have the system drive installed on a RAID. Not sure about hard RAIDs though..



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I don't think you can have the system drive installed on a RAID.

You can. There are a couple ways to pull it off, Apple's RAID card being one. I've set up plenty of Xserves that way, 'cause it's important that those machines be able to survive a service interruption due to a hard drive failure. But for an editing workstation, that's the wrong way to go, in my opinion.

Interesting... You install the boot volume then clone it over to a striped/mirrored volume?

>But for an editing workstation, that's the wrong way to go, in my opinion.

I agree too. There is no significant advantage, and you'll get more benefits making clones or backing up with time machine.



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You install the boot volume then clone it over to a striped/mirrored volume?

No, it's a RAID set that's supported at the driver level of the operating system. It looks, to the OS, like a single disk. You never clone anything, you just treat it like one disk. Like I said, it works great on an Xserve, where uptime is more important than defending yourself against user error or whatever.

The Caldigit VR is un-usable in my configuration because it doesn't support RAID 5. I looked at the HDElement and it's certainly the most affordable SAS RAID that I could find, but I still have some questions about it. Unfortunately, the website is too vague, and I can't get a sales associate on the phone probably until Monday. If you use this, then I'd really appreciate your feedback.

First of all, the HDElement seems to come with the RAID controller card which is great. It's also expandable because there are 3 external ports which is also great. If you expand with another HDElement, do they sell one without the RAID card since you don't need 2. If so, does it cost less? I couldn't find an answer to that on their site.

Second, it says that it's expandable up to 18TB of storage on 3 external enclosures. It also says that an enclosure includes 1TB, 2TB, 3TB and 4TB configurations. How does the math work on that? If you can only have a max 4TB configuration and you have 3 externals, how are you getting 18TB? Even if you include the internal config, that's still only 16TB. Possibly related to this, I noticed on OWC that they sell a 6TB HDElement. Is that a non-supported configuration, or is it just a typo on the site, and they really do support 6TB enclosures.

This is important because I need a minimum of 4TB usable space in RAID 5 for this system. I don't want to spend $5000 for 2x4TB enclosures if I can get 6TB for under $3000.

Andy

Andy you can't get RAID 5 unless you have a minimum of 3 HDDs in a RAID.

Read here to understand about RAID and RAID levels: [en.wikipedia.org]

If you don't want the headache go Caldigit HDelement or HDpro - the downside is cost and speed. I say speed because unfortunately Caldigit are now no longer very fast compared to the other systems on the market. They do however have very good support and extremely reliable systems which is why everyone (including myself) recommends them.

If you are going to build your own you will save 1000s for a similar off-the-shelf system, but then you also have to be prepared for a lot of issues and support will often be dependent on you identifying any problems yourself. I had a nightmare with the Highpoint card until they updated the firmware, now its all fine, but not something you want when relying on a RAID for work.

There are a variety of cases, connections and cards on the market. A lot of SAS RAID cards will connect directly to SATA HDDs or port multipliers or SAS expanders. This means you can use either cheaper desktop SATA HDDs, enterprise versions or SAS HDDs. You will have to check what HDDs are compatible - in my experience Hitachi and Samsung are the two manufacturers I recommend using.

I build my own RAIDs and I will be reviewing the Highpoint 4322, the Areca 1680x and hopefully a card from ATTO. So if you wait a month or so I should have the results in.

Currently the Highpoint RocketRAID 3522 I have had running for about a year, is hooked up via 2x 3m SFF-8088 miniSAS cables to a NetStor SAS JBOD with 8 Samsung SpinPoint F1 1TB HDDs in RAID 5. Empty it does around 600MBps and at 80% full - just over 400MBps.



The downside is that the 3522 doesn't support SAS expanders so if I wanted to make a larger RAID I would have to use larger HDDs.

I will be testing the other faster cards on a 16 bay Promise case with SAS expander and 16 HDDs to see if I can make it scream! I have read reviews of 800MBps+ on the newer cards so wait and see what pitfalls I encounter and what I get out of them!

Before any nay sayers start going on about the difficulties - it isn't difficult - its just that you don't have the support or guarantees that you pay a premium for with the ready built and tested options.



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Thanks for your take Ben. I know that you need more than 2 drives for RAID 5. That's the reason why the VR won't work for what I need. I've read that wiki before and used it for reference while I've been doing my research. It's not the RAID configurations that have me confused.

I actually like the HDElement for my needs. I don't need screaming speed because the system will be used for ProRes content, not Uncompressed or 2K. I just wondered about whether you can purchase additional storage without getting a redundant Caldigit RAID card.

I'm not adverse to building my own RAID although I see your point regarding configuration/compatibility issues and having to troubleshoot yourself. I consider myself fairly savvy, but the person I'm setting this up for is not necessarily so, and I don't want to spend my days on the phone with him trying to troubleshoot.

Andy

Then in which case I highly recommend the CalDigit HDone or you could go HDElement - to answer you query earlier about the 6TB models - as far as I know you can get 6TB in an HDelement using the 1.5TB modules however it looks like they forgot to update the HDelement product page but it is shown on the Main product page here: [www.caldigit.com]

The only problem with getting the CalDigit RAID card is that it doesn't work internally on the Nehalem Macs due to Apple changing the power connector inside. However you can still connect the Elements externally.



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Also the OWC Mercury Elite Pro is only a dual drive system is it not? So you can't do RAID 5 on them anyway.

I would highly recommend getting a fast RAID though - the time you save even with ProRes exporting and rendering and copying media means you get so much more done or finish earlier.

I used a dual HDD in a RAID 0 the other day on a clients system for DVCproHD - boy did that feel sluggish!



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Did you mean the Elite-AL Pro Qx2?

[eshop.macsales.com]

Rather than buy a card you could use a spare internal SATA port with an eSATA Slot like this:

[www.meritline.com]

Then connect the Elite-AL Pro Qx2 - I'm sure that would be more than sufficient, but I can't vouch for OWCs RAID products but their support was good last time I used them - even from the UK!



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Yes, now I see why you thought that about the Elite Pro. I did indeed mean the Qx2 4-bay drive. I had a really bad experience with that eSATA extender though so I'd probably still get an eSATA card if I go that route.

A computer guy told me that the eSATA connection on the motherboard that it connects to doesn't support port multiplying which would cause issues. I don't know myself, but I did have issues with it recognizing drives that were connected.

Thanks for your thoughts on it.

Andy

Interesting - I have a friend using the internal to eSATA with a eSATA RAID with no problems - I will ask him what make/model and exactly how he's got it setup he might have bought a card too.

Mind you the eSATA controller cards are very cheap so its not going to break the bank.

The plus side of using something like this RAID is that it is reasonably portable and using a MBP with express34 slot and eSATA adaptor makes it very good for an on site edit. I edited a feature film offline in ProRes with an eSATA connected RAID and an HD Projector hooked up via DVI-D to HDMI.

Something to mention to your client maybe - especially if you are filming RED?

When you purchase the RAID it might be the pertinent thing to buy 1 spare HDD so in the unlikely event of a drive failure you can swap it out and not have to order and wait for it.



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When you purchase the RAID it might be the pertinent thing to buy 1 spare HDD so in the unlikely event of a drive failure you can swap it out and not have to order and wait for it.

Great idea. I think I will do that.

Andy

...but make sure you check all the HDDs especially that the spare is working!



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Andy,

I've been considering the unit for use with ProRes media. Here's the URL for a new review of it: [www.barefeats.com]

-Russ