Can't output to client specs - (animation codec)

They want me to output to Animation, 10fps, keyframe every 100 frames

but they insist on a CONSTANT frame rate

FCP 7 exports variable frame rate and so does compressor

I can get it constant when I keyframe every frame - but they won't pay for that - they want every 100 frames

If I can't do this in FCS 3- is there any third party conversion app that will enforce a frame rate in the animation codec?

Thanks

>FCP 7 exports variable frame rate and so does compressor

What do you mean by "variable" frame rate? I just threw a test clip with BITC via QT conversion and set it to enforce a keyframes every 100 frames, and 10 fps, and I did get 10 fps.

Keyframes and frame rates are two different things. Keyframes are like I-frames in a long GOP setting. The rest of the frames basically store whatever information that has changed (hence the term frame differencing).

Setting keyframes to every 100 frames forces an I-frame (which is a full picture). Usually a keyframe is placed at every cut point. And we'd enforce a keyframe every 5 secs or so. This is just in case a clip has played on for too long without a cut, and to prevent the image from going soft, we'd insert an I-frame every x number of frames that the clip goes on without a cut.

However, usually I set keyframes to all when working in Animation/Png. Why temporally compress your intermediate codecs?



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When you open the movie in quicktime - hit command-i for the inspector

you get two different readouts

FPS (target or max framerate)

Playing FPS (actual frame rate changing as movie runs)

The Playing Frame rate needs to run constant at 10 fps (for whatever the heck they have to do on their end)

It's a screen capture project - I'm able to capture at a solid 10fps - but it's kind of pointless if I can't edit and output to their requirements

>The Playing Frame rate needs to run constant at 10 fps (for whatever the heck they have to do
>on their end)

That depends on whether the playback and throughput capability on the machine is able to access and decode the files fast enough.

>I can get it constant when I keyframe every frame

Temporally compressing your files make it harder to decode. Think of it like a simplified version of HDV.

If they're getting to be ar**s about this, you could try dropping the quality slider on encoding preference and set depth to "thousands of colors" or even "256". I'm working on the premise that lowering the quality will make it easier for the machine to decode, therefore allowing you to hit your playback frame rate on a lesser machine.



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No, I don't think so - Let me restate

I can capture an animation clip that plays back in quicktime with a displayed Playing FPS of 10 fps

I cannot output an animation clip that displays (in quicktime) a Playing FPS of 10 fps from FCS 3

This is an encoding issue, not hardware

>This is an encoding issue, not hardware

Let me restate too. Not all Animation is equal. You can have different frame sizes, different color bit depth.

Quicktime Pro will drop video quality (including frames) to attempt to keep up with playback. This is part of the design of Quicktime. Also, QT is not meant to be that time accurate.



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Have you actually sent them a test clip?

More than likely its just QT being funny.

Also I would export your 10fps - kf 100 from QT Pro from your master SCQTM.

You often get wavering fps readout on Quicktime information depending on the CODEC and other processes and the speed of the media it is being run off.



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The animation codec will record/play back fewer frames when it thinks they aren't needed

Snapz Pro X actually has a feature called "enforce frame rate" for this reason

iShowU also has a similar toggle in addition to the overall frame rate setting

But they're capture programs - I need this option on output for my edited clip

here are two samples:

One - unedited capture from snapz

two - same clip set in FCP timeline and output through compressor

play each in quicktime - hit command-i to see playing FPS

[www.mediafire.com]

[www.mediafire.com]

>The animation codec will record/play back fewer frames when it thinks they aren't needed

That sounds like what I would expect from H.264. It really shouldn't be the case with Animation.

Are your source clips screen caps? I downloaded your clips, and couldn't get it into FCP at the native frame rate, but FCP is designed to work with video formats, and odd ball formats aren't really well supported.

I did bring it into AE and exported it from there and it seemed to work out alright. The file sizes indicate that keyframes aren't set to all, and the frame rate was pretty constant.



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The Snapz one wavered from 9 to 12.5 then settled at 10fps on QT 7.6.4

And says that the fps is 9.99

In FCP it shows 10fps Animation CODEC


The file is fine - it is what you get when you make an Animation CODEC movie.


Cut your FCP sequence in a proper video format such as 23.98 to 60 fps or anything inbetween then export a 10fps Animation CODEC version either from FCP or QTpro.

My suggestion would be 30fps if doing screen caps as thats easily divisible by into 10fps without introducing to many "blended" frames between cuts or movements as you may get with other framerates.

Here is a 1 second example of a 30fps (real 30fps) converted to a 10fps Animation CODEC on export.

[www.loudandfast.co.uk]

The original had 3 frames black then 3 frames grey repeated so you can see its exactly 1 second and frame accurate transfer from 30-10.


It's confusing but as I said - send the client a test clip if you are still unsure and get them to say yay or nay - my feeling is that you are worrying over nothing and your file is fine its just the quirks of the Animation CODEC and monitoring it. If you export a 10fps 100kf Animation CODEC QT movie then thats what you get. Show a file that doesn't waver and I'll 'del-eat' my words.

PS - convince the client to move to ProRes 444 and join the 21st century! Animation CODEC is so old it reminds me of the time before CD-ROMS! Hell it was released with QuickTime 1.0 on December 2, 1991!!!



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Quote

My suggestion would be 30fps if doing screen caps as thats easily divisible by into 10fps without introducing to many "blended" frames between cuts or movements as you may get with other framerates.

Since "30 fps" is really just shorthand for "29.97longrepeatingdecimal," that's not actually true. It would've been better to do 12 for 24 step-printed. As it is, 10 frames per second doesn't evenly divide into anything, so this guy's kinda boned.

And to this guy: Tell your client that there's no such thing as guaranteed frame-rate playback on a typical computer screen. The software doesn't work like that. You get the best approximation of guaranteed-rate playback that the computer can give you, period, end of paragraph.

Computers are not televisions.

Sorry JH wasn't too clear there - I mean't you can do locked 30fps (real bonafide 30 frames per second) on screen capture apps - or is that what you mean - there isn't an actual 30fps even on screen?

Wouldn't that also make more sense on what is probably a 60fps display (guessing here) and that can be edited in FCP frame accurately and then exported as above?

At least you have a pretty simple set of figures to calculate if you want to know if something will appear on a frame once converted to 10fps.

That is if I am following correctly that drtuzi is editing screen-captures for tutorials on MS software...



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Thanks for the input, guys

yes, animation codec sucks - but they're paying the fare

Kudos to Gerard "Strypes" - only thing that worked was AE - takes two seconds to ramp up, then remains steady at 10 fps



Thanks!

drtuzi - what is it that you are actually cutting? I'm still none the wiser!

Are you capturing 10fps screen caps or is it full frame rate video that you are converting?

Glad you got it sorted though.



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>Are you capturing 10fps screen caps or is it full frame rate video that you are converting?

Either one, actually. I'm doing the capture. It's the output that's the sticking point.

When you capture to animation at these specs, the file size is weirdly small and the frame rate (if you use the right capture settings) stays at 10 fps steady.

But that means one-take, talking and clicking at the same time - I'd rather cut and polish.

Problem is, as soon you take it into an NLE, you get the frame rate problem I've been dealing with.

Now that I've solved that - the problem is the data rate (even with keyframes set at 100) you can't really control it in animation and (as far as I know) the render settings in AE don't give you the option to reduce it - data rate balloons insanely and now I fear the files may be too large.

Irony is - I'm not doing the final compression - just trying to deliver what they're used to before they apply their settings.

I miss Pro Res.

I'm kinda curious too. Why are you worried about file size? What kinda workflow is this?



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