Stuttering motion after outputting with Compressor

Hi guys,

need your help.
A befriended director asked me to rip and burn a TNG episode he directed. He only had the "bought DVD version" not the original files. So since this is a favor I cannot spend any money on it.

I have the 4Media DVD Ripper and made mp4 files of the episode. In FCP I changed the codec to apple pro res and exported the movie with quicktime. Then I used the compressor with the "DVD best quality 90 minutes" setting to output it for DVD Studio.

The result was stuttering motion in my DVD player and slightly out of sync dialogues. I had a look and realized that it already seems to do that after exporting with quicktime. The picture quality in FCP is ok, after outputting it with quicktime it's bad.
Any suggestions please?

I presume 4Media DVD Ripper isn't able to extract to any format other than MPEG-4? If it is able, you shouldn't be extracting to MPEG-4. If it isn't able, are you actually editing with the files? If not, I don't see a reason for the ProRes step.

Also, how long is each piece in your extraction? For DVD extraction, especially if you're having sync problems, it'd be ideal to keep each piece under five minutes and then rejoin them later.


www.derekmok.com

It would've been able to extract as a .mov file too but as far as I remember the quality was worse.

I just looked at the ripped files...the quality is better than after outputting from Final Cut. Those old TNG episodes sometimes were a little out of sync or had fragments but of course I wanna do as best as I can.

It must be something I did in FCP. Now, after ripping the codec is mp4...should I leave it that way? No, no editing going on. I just put in 2 transitions because 4Media tends to cut of 1 second at the end of each chapters.
The chapter now vary between 3,27 mins to 8,15 mins.

> It would've been able to extract as a .mov file too but as far as I remember the quality was
> worse.

That's not possible. Did you look at the actual encoding settings? MPEG-4 and QuickTime .mov are just wrappers; they contain codecs (such as H.264, DV, Uncompressed 10-bit, ProRes etc.), frame-size and data-rate settings that determine how much data is devoted to representing the image.


www.derekmok.com

No, I did not. So, you think I should rip it as a quicktime mov and that it would improve the quality? I already gave him the original DVD back but I see him tomorrow, could then rip it again.

After ripping as a mov file...what settings would I need in FCP and compressor?

And why does it look good in the canvas in viewer but not after exporting?

You haven't told us anything about your settings (eg. what codec for the extraction? What settings when exporting from FCP?), so it's pretty hard to nail down what's causing your issues. But, you can't judge quality in the FCP Canvas. All I could see in your original description is that you put the DVD (already compromised in quality) through three more layers of compression: The original MPEG-4 (a heavily compressed format), then ProRes, then MPEG-2 again back out to DVD. That's at least one generation loss that was unnecessary. Also, if your first stage had been a less compressed format -- even DV NTSC should have looked better -- you also would, theoretically speaking, have better results at the end.


www.derekmok.com

Oh ok, thanks for bearing with me Derek
Now, here are my ripping settings:
MP4, video quality: 2500 Kbps, audio quality: 448 Kbps and Split: infinite.
(as for a .mov file I'd have video quality: 1200 Kbps and Audio also" 448 Kbps)

Then, in Final Cut my settings are:
Frame size: 640x480
pixal aspect ratio: square
filed dominance: none
29,97 fps
compressor: MPEG-4

This is actually the setting FCP suggested when importing.
Unfortunately, not changing it to Apple Pro Res didn't help at all.

Start over with Handbrake and rip to proper 720x480.[handbrake.fr]

Final Cut Studio Training, featuring the HVX200, EX1, EX3, DVX100, DVDSP and Color at [www.callboxlive.com]!
Author, RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera available now at: [www.amazon.com].
Editors Store- Gifts and Gear for Editors: [www.editorsstore.com]

Yeah, I think that's the easiest way...
thanks!

Handbrake? Do you mean MPEG Streamclip Noah?

oh gees, I thought that was just a term, not a word for a software
Did I understand correctly that it's a ripper?

> MP4, video quality: 2500 Kbps, audio quality: 448 Kbps and Split: infinite.
> (as for a .mov file I'd have video quality: 1200 Kbps and Audio also" 448 Kbps)
>
> Then, in Final Cut my settings are:
> Frame size: 640x480
> pixal aspect ratio: square
> filed dominance: none
> 29,97 fps
> compressor: MPEG-4

See, that was the problem. Of course your MPEG-4 had looked better than the QuickTime movie -- you had made the MPEG-4 at double the data rate.

Your Final Cut settings were set wrong as well. MPEG-4 is not an editing codec. Not only is it heavily compressed, it's also ancient -- a good seven, eight years old. As Noah said, start from scratch, but don't just plunge into the extraction from DVD. You have to think through your whole process first, what you're looking to achieve and how best to achieve it.

For example, you can get better quality if you go with an Uncompressed 10-bit SD timeline. It won't look better than the source DVD ("garbage in, garbage out", but it will help preserve as much of the data and image as possible. You can also go ProRes, but then you need to extract the clips from DVD and save as ProRes clips. Your ProRes looked bad before because you put them through two layers of MPEG-4 compression. Also, don't judge image quality on the Canvas (the smaller image makes your eye think everything looks better); put it onto the FCP timeline and then watch on an external broadcast monitor.

Stop using those "presets" provided by the software. They don't work well for 90 per cent of uses, and relying on them leads to you not knowing what the heck you had set your own footage to. Start learning how to set these parameters manually, learn what each parameter means.

Handbrake and MPEG Streamclip are both DVD extraction tools. I've only used MPEG Streamclip -- it works just fine, except that it can't circumvent DVD copy protection. I don't know if Handbrake can.


www.derekmok.com

I meant Handbrake- give you a better rip IMHO.

Noah

Final Cut Studio Training, featuring the HVX200, EX1, EX3, DVX100, DVDSP and Color at [www.callboxlive.com]!
Author, RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera available now at: [www.amazon.com].
Editors Store- Gifts and Gear for Editors: [www.editorsstore.com]

Ok, I'll download Handbrake and try to rip again tomorrow in .mov files.
I'll now make it a Uncompressed 10-bit SD timeline and see what that will do.
I created a disc image in toast, no stuttering! but also not enough options to create a menue...

Since you're experimenting, you should try extracting only one clip. Put it through the process and see if you're satisfied with the result. You could even try extracting one clip with different settings (eg. Uncompressed 10-bit vs. DV vs. Photo JPEG vs. ProRes) and see which one suits your purposes. Just make sure your FCP timeline matches.


www.derekmok.com

Yeah, that's what I'm doing right now...just trying different timeline settings and codecs...we'll see which one will do best.
thanks Derek!

Now, end of the story was that my ripper was crap. I bought a different one and the picture quality was much better and no stuttering!
So, wasn't my fault for a change
And then my DVD burner broke down...unbelievable! this disc just didn't want to be burnt...