LiveType Textures not appearing in FCP

Yet another issue after upgrading to Snow Leopard....
My text created in LiveType with a texture fill doesn't show up in FCP with the texture fill...the text is simply white. I've trashed prefs and still no luck.
Any ideas?

10.6.2
2 x 2.8GHz Quad-COre Intel Xeon
8 GB Ram
FCP 6.0.6

I noticed a spate of similar issues recently in the posts here.
(Sorry if this isn't directly related to this specific issue.)

Unless I have lost my mind, I thought it was pretty clear that you shouldn't be upgrading your OS when using an older version of FCP. So, FCP 7 should work with Snow Leopard, but FCP 6 may not be as stable/robust and should be avoided (but is okay with Leopard). Since FCP (or FCS) is so resource "heavy" on the OS, it is unwise to mix "drastically" different versions of FCP and OS X, isn't it? In other words, you use the current versions of OS X and FCS together, or versions that are more compatible (FCS2/FCP6.x with OS 10.5.x)... right?

Also, when upgrading either FCP/FCS or OS X, you should probably completely erase your startup drive and reinstall both the OS and FCS from scratch to avoid issues.

Someone else on the forums (a few months ago) mentioned that Snow Leopard (10.6.2) wasn't free of all issues and that users of FCS3 (FCP7) should stay with Leopard. The same person (?) may have also referred to the software RAID driver maker of SoftRAID not having yet released a Snow Leopard compatible version yet, and that this was a good benchmark for determining whether or not Snow Leopard was ready for primetime (with FCS3/FCP7).

So, unless you have a Mac that can only run Snow Leopard, I thought it was a strong consensus to avoid using Snow Leopard with FCS3/FCP7 and stick with Leopard. With FCS2/FCP6, I wouldn't even think about using Snow Leopard ever, from what I've heard.

Of course, I may be totally wrong... ???
;-)


-Dave

P.S. - Although I am not a HW or OS X expert, I have FCS3/FCP7 and Snow Leopard 10.6.2 installed on my test Mac Pro for testing and haven't moved to using this combo for real work yet. Snow Leopard in general is still flakey and tends to use a lot more RAM than Leopard, and more important, it doesn't seem to be as robust in releasing memory that is no longer being actively used (virtual memory usage is up significantly, whereas it doesn't cause problems in Leopard on my production Mac Pro). Of course, this is just anecdotal information.

I wouldn't say "totally wrong," Dave, but in my opinion you're pretty drastically overstating it. Final Cut Studio 2 is explicitly supported on Snow Leopard. Likewise, Final Cut Studio 2009 Soopa-Genius Special Extended Dance Mix is explicitly supported on 10.5.6 or later.

The knowledge base document on this is HT3835, but for some reason it's giving me a "page not found" on Apple's site right now. It may have been superseded, or their site might just be acting up today.

I don't want to sound like a tool here, but I guess I kind of am a hardware and operating system expert, depending on just how you define the word. So trust me when I tell you this: Doing technical support over the Internet is one of the hardest things in the world. It's like trying to perform surgery over the telephone when the person on the other end faints at the sight of blood and thinks a pancreas is a snooty French appetizer.

Computers are not magical, and they're not mysterious. But they are complex. They're more complex than the average person should be reasonably expected to deal with. So guidelines are offered. Such-and-such is a supported configuration; such-and-such is not. In other words, under circumstance X, everything will work unless something is definitively wrong, while under circumstance Y if anything works at all it's purely a coincidence.

There's a whole world of maybe in the middle. In Terry's case, I haven't the foggiest idea what's wrong. I've launched LiveType precisely once in my life, and that was just long enough to discover that I didn't care for the workflow. (It was an old job that I was asked to revise, and it had LiveType titles in it. Rather than fighting with the program, I just re-typed the titles in Boris 3D.)

But at least from what I've heard so far, Terry's configuration is a supported one.

Jeff Harrell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wouldn't say "totally wrong," Dave, but in my
> opinion you're pretty drastically overstating it.
> Final Cut Studio 2 is explicitly supported on Snow
> Leopard. Likewise, Final Cut Studio 2009
> Soopa-Genius Special Extended Dance Mix is
> explicitly supported on 10.5.6 or later.

Okay, thanks for that.

But, we all know that "supported" doesn't mean it works as well as it should.
;-)

Snow Leopard still doesn't seem quite up to the level of robustness and stability of Leopard.


Jeff Harrell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't want to sound like a tool here, but I
> guess I kind of am a hardware and operating system
> expert, depending on just how you define the word.
> So trust me when I tell you this: Doing technical
> support over the Internet is one of the hardest
> things in the world. It's like trying to perform
> surgery over the telephone when the person on the
> other end faints at the sight of blood and thinks
> a pancreas is a snooty French appetizer.

Yeah, this stuff is complex, no doubt. While in college, I worked in tech support so I know how people can confuse things (even over the telephone).

So, FCS3 (FCS 2009) was released when Leopard was "the" OS, so it should work fine with it. Snow Leopard was released afterwards. FCS 2009 hasn't had many updates since then, so... ???
(There have been some ProKit updates, even one today, that may affect things.)

It may turn out that people who install a new OS over the old one, or a new version of FCS over an old one, or both together, run into more problems than those who do clean installs (or not?)... But, with a clean install, you know what you're getting for the most part.

Also, I have heard that older FCP plugins, older QuickTime plugins, and old (or bad) fonts, just to name a few, can cause serious issues under Snow Leopard...

Also, no one mentioned that all of us should avoid upgrading anything during work on a given project (without a complete backup system available, HW and SW)...

I am pretty anal about things, so I will continue to wait until 10.6.3 comes out and I have had a chance to test my various workflows (and "my" experts tell me that Snow Leopard is stable)....

The key thing is that I lose nothing in capability or speed by sticking with Leopard, for now, but I have the knowledge that my system is pretty damned stable... to me this is golden...

Of course, Terry's issue(s) could be due to many other things, such as corrupt font cache files or who knows what else...
;-)

Thanks for the pointer to the Apple support KB article...


-Dave

I know this is completely off the topic, but I'm going to zero in on two things here, because they've set me off.

Quote

But, we all know that "supported" doesn't mean it works as well as it should.

Quote

Also, I have heard that older FCP plugins, older QuickTime plugins, and old (or bad) fonts, just to name a few, can cause serious issues under Snow Leopard.

I'm left kind of speechless when I hear these sentiments expressed together. And it's not just here, today, that I've heard them; by coincidence, perhaps, I've run up against them twice before in the past couple weeks, in addition to right here.

I just can't wrap my head around how somebody could complain that "supported configuration" does not mean "magically perfect," while at the same time somehow blaming the operating system itself for not working with applications and plug-ins that are expressly not compatible?

If one doesn't give a damn about what's a supported configuration and what's not, the least one could do is put a sock in it when one boots up an explicitly not-supported configuration and discovered, shock and surprise, that it's unsupported.

(That's not aimed precisely at you, Dave. You just struck a nerve.)

Jeff,

I agree with your sentiments. I may not have stated things as clearly as possible.


Jeff Harrell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know this is completely off the topic, but I'm
> going to zero in on two things here, because
> they've set me off.
>
> But, we all know that "supported" doesn't mean it
> works as well as it should.
>
> Also, I have heard that older FCP plugins, older
> QuickTime plugins, and old (or bad) fonts, just to
> name a few, can cause serious issues under Snow
> Leopard.
>
> I'm left kind of speechless when I hear these
> sentiments expressed together. And it's not just
> here, today, that I've heard them; by coincidence,
> perhaps, I've run up against them twice before in
> the past couple weeks, in addition to right here.
>
> I just can't wrap my head around how somebody
> could complain that "supported configuration" does
> not mean "magically perfect," while at the same
> time somehow blaming the operating system itself
> for not working with applications and plug-ins
> that are expressly not compatible?
>

I am not sure if you are referring to my statements being unclear, wrong, etc., or if you are talking in general.

Because, I certainly don't believe that "supported" means perfect, nor do I think I even implied that. Sometimes one version of the OS works and the next update breaks things. In both cases, the OS variants _are_ supported (though may not work properly, or as well as they should).

Jeff Harrell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If one doesn't give a damn about what's a
> supported configuration and what's not, the least
> one could do is put a sock in it when one boots up
> an explicitly not-supported configuration and
> discovered, shock and surprise, that it's
> unsupported.

This doesn't apply to my comments, as far as I can tell. I certainly didn't imply this either. So, yes, doing a hacked install of FCS 2009 on a PPC G5 Mac running Leopard is clearly unsupported and may work. But, at some point the FCS 2009 will stop working on that PPC G5 Mac, and that event should not be a surprise (since it is unsupported).


Jeff Harrell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (That's not aimed precisely at you, Dave. You just
> struck a nerve.)

I agree with your sentiments.

However, upgrading from Leopard to Snow Leopard without doing a complete, clean install can leave a bunch of stuff in the Library and System folders that may cause problems.

And, upgrading the OS may cause certain plugins that are supposed to work to break.

Additionally, upgrading or reinstalling FCS over an existing or older version doesn't "clean out" all the "old stuff."

These things may be obvious to you and me, but they aren't things that most users would know about.

That's why I have always followed the advice of the more experienced posters here and elsewhere (for 6+ years) to be careful whenever I change my production/work setup. I always do a completely fresh install of both the OS and FCP/FCS (and everything else) when moving to major new versions of either...

---

I apologize for steering this thread off-topic. Wrist slap to myself... ;-)

While I have your attention Jeff, thanks for posting the info about the QuickTime frame/aperture settings in an earlier post. I have been looking for documentation on that...


Best regards,

Dave

Yeah, Dave, we're not really arguing. I was just blowing off a little steam there. Thanks for indulging me.

It's absolutely true that doing an erase-and-install is much less likely to cause problems than doing an upgrade. I agree wholeheartedly. The only point on which we disagree was that you said Final Cut 6 on Snow Leopard was bad news; I've heard different. So just a tiny point.

And no problem on the aperture conform thing. I had just discovered it myself; I'm glad I wasn't the very last to know what it was all about.

TVTerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yet another issue after upgrading to Snow
> Leopard....
> My text created in LiveType with a texture fill
> doesn't show up in FCP with the texture fill...the
> text is simply white. I've trashed prefs and still
> no luck.
> Any ideas?

Back on topic, hopefully...
;-)

Does the LiveType content show up properly in Motion?

Wow...thanks Dave! Didn't mean to start you two off!
If I create text in Motion and bring it into FCP all is fine....but I don't know if it's possible in Motion to access the Textures that are offered in LiveType. Of course the textures in the Motion Library show up fine... as do the LiveFonts and such.
Just to let you both know...after the problems I had due to the upgrade process I chose, I bought another SATA drive to use as a new system drive and installed Snow Leopard and FCS 3 on it. I just haven't had a chance to completely install ALL of my apps and plug ins and such on the new drive yet. So I did learn my lesson regarding the clean install of both the OS and new software. But what a pain in the rear to have to do that whenever a new OS comes out....I didn't realize just how many apps I had .... It's going to take me quite some time to reinstall them all on the new drive!

It is a pain, yeah, Terry. But sometimes it comes down to a choice between two annoyances. One chooses between taking a day and doing a clean install every year or two when upgrade time rolls around, or running the risk of having to debug a problem later.

It's generally good practice ? as I'm sure you know; this is for the lurkers to read ? to keep production environments separate from, um, what I hypocritically call "screwin' around" environments. My rule of thumb is that if a system is used to make money, I don't install anything on it that isn't used to make money. I won't even surf the Web on my production systems, but that's taking it farther than is really prudent.

TVTerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow...thanks Dave! Didn't mean to start you two
> off!
> If I create text in Motion and bring it into FCP
> all is fine....but I don't know if it's possible
> in Motion to access the Textures that are offered
> in LiveType. Of course the textures in the Motion
> Library show up fine... as do the LiveFonts and
> such.
> Just to let you both know...after the problems I
> had due to the upgrade process I chose, I bought
> another SATA drive to use as a new system drive
> and installed Snow Leopard and FCS 3 on it. I just
> haven't had a chance to completely install ALL of
> my apps and plug ins and such on the new drive
> yet. So I did learn my lesson regarding the clean
> install of both the OS and new software. But what
> a pain in the rear to have to do that whenever a
> new OS comes out....I didn't realize just how many
> apps I had .... It's going to take me quite some
> time to reinstall them all on the new drive!

I no longer have FCP 6 installed on any of my setups, so I can't speak to the details of your issue. But, if things import and work in Motion then I am taking a wild guess that you probably don't have font issues, at least not directly (one less thing to consider).

Be aware if you aren't already that LiveType is no longer one of the provided apps in FCS3 (FCS 2009). Its functionality is accessible via Motion. This is why I suggested the LiveType --> Motion --> FCP workflow. You can reinstall LiveType from the FCS2 discs and continue to use it.

Several people are reporting problems with continued use of LiveType 2.1.3 (last version) and earlier, when they directly go from LiveType to FCP 7 in Snow Leopard (see Apple Discussions for LiveType).

The workaround is to go from LiveType through Motion or just use Motion to create your text.

Sorry for not being more helpful...


-Dave

This thread went off the rails somewhere - the original question was - why are textures and other parts of Live Type suddenly broken (they're broken often in plain old Leopard too - not just the new improved Snow version

...and how do you get all the good parts of LiveType to work in Motion (preset text motion effects -- big library of motion and texture backgrounds) We've had the same problems -- Motion backgrounds in old LiveType documents suddenly don't appear -- -- it's fine if they're tossing LiveType to the curb - just give us the same ease of use and functionality inside Motion!