XDCAM EX 1080i60 footage is jumpy

I'm working on a project where all the footage is XDCAM EX 1080i60. I have FCP set-up for this format as well as the sequence. When ever the camera does a slow pan or tilt the footage gets jumpy. It happens on both my MacPro 3GHz Dual Core and MacBook Pro 2.4 GHz. The footage is coming off a G-Raid mini via FW800. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

Rich

Maybe you shot it that way. Jog through frame by frame.
Maybe the drive is near full.
I use EX 1080p30 or 720p60 on MacPro 2008 and don't have any problems.

I didn't shoot this stuff but I will check through the clips and see if that's the case. Interesting addition to this project, when I originally started FCP was set for SD and after resetting the sequence to 1080i60 I had to resize all my clips to fit the canvas. Every new sequence the clips fit perfect. Anyone have that happen before?

When you drop the first clip in FCP7 sequence it will ask if you want matching sequence setting. If you don't answer yes you get what it was last left at.
Alternately select the correct Easy Setup when you start the project and then create a new sequence.

my guess is that the reason is - it's xdcam 1080i60 footage. XDCAM HD footage has given us a lot of headaches -- it's really just HDV on steroids and everything that goes along with that -- agonizingly long render and conform times -- and some stutter in playback depending on how much horsepower you have under your mac hood - if you have the time -- turn it into pro-res and edit that way - far less of a headache -- wish there were an option in Log and Transfer to do that directly but so far - no

We've also had better luck not trans-coding it at all and using a plug in that will read the MXF files directly -- as if they were quicktime

Thanks Andy. I'm still pretty new to the workflows of FCP. How would you turn it into Pro Res OR can you point me in the right direction for a plug-in that will read the MXF files. Thanks.

this is a great plug in

MXF Files natively in Final Cut Plug In


Turning to pro-res is a bit more tedius -- take the raw Quicktime Files that you've spent time watching grass grow getting re-wrapped from MXF -- bring those into compressor and export at ProRes-- you can also do this right within FinalCut (Export using quicktime conversion) or Quicktime 7 Player - all every time consuming


The plug in above avoids all that wasted time

Either I'm misunderstanding Andy's post or there is misinformation.

Whether Cinemon or CalibratedSoftware plugin, all they are doing is tricking FCP into thinking the file is EX XDCAM .mov. The files will work no better and EX XDCAM .mov. It is not an alternative to ProRes.

FCP handles EX XDCAM .mov well (as it does HDV) but it certainly depends on your computer. On my MacPro 2008 I've never had to convert to ProRes when using the EX codec solely. Mixing codecs would be another story.

A MacBook Pro might be stressed if you're layering multiple EX files but my 15" MacBook Pro 2008 handles a single layer of EX files flawlessly coming from a good firewire 400 drive.

Always set renders to ProRes. Note there's a Preference setting in FCP to set all HDV and EX XDCAM renders to ProRes. This means there's no GOP re-conform during the editing process. Of course once you export that process may be slow. It's still OK on my MacPro but on my MacBook Pro export can be very slow compared to an I-Frame codec.

I tend to prefer to convert to ProRes because I hate the long render/export time when I'm done with the edit. Some people do complain that FCP constantly crashes due to overload when they are working on long, complex edits in XDCAM EX.

There shouldn't be a difference between editing the mxfs natively and editing Log and Transferred XDCAM EX quicktimes, aside from taking the time to Log and Transfer them. How long does Log and Transfer take with XDCAM EX? It depends on the drive, but even on USB, the transfer is much faster than real time.

I usually cut XDCAM EX natively on my first day of the edit, while setting up a batch conversion process to ProRes overnight. It depends on how you plan to work.



www.strypesinpost.com

This is just one track of video with some 20 frame dissolves. Total length of each video is 2 minutes. It might just be the drive it's stored on, G-Raid mini. It was jumpy in my edit suite and when I tried it at home on my MacBook Pro.

Again, new to the FCP world so when you say "setting up a batch conversion process to ProRes overnight." is that something you do within FCP or do you have to export it to compressor first?

rich

I create Compressor droplets that will do the transcode to ProRes and save them with the same file name in a separate folder. So on the way out, I copy all the XDCAM EX Quicktime files and pop them onto the droplet, then come back the next morning to relink them.



www.strypesinpost.com

Jumpy is a little hard to diagnose. It could be anything from setting too high a shutter speed. Does FCP report any dropped frames on playback? (go to user preferences and turn that option on, then playback the clip in the timeline)



www.strypesinpost.com

I have no problem at all with sequences like that using EX XDCAM .mov using my 2008 MacBook Pro and Firewire 400 drive with 7200rpm drive. 1080p30 plays back fluid, setting ProRes as render means the dissolves render quickly. Exporting self contained with Sequence Settings (EX XDCAM codec) is slow though. I'll generally move a project over to my MacPro for that.

Streypes: FCP is not reporting any dropped frames.

Craig: I checked back on a couple of the master clips and they are jumpy at the same points as they are in my sequence.

I have my sequence settings as,

Frame Size 1920 x 1080 HDTV 1080i (16:9)
Pixel Aspect Ratio: Square
Field Dominance: upper (odd)

Quicktime Video Settings:

Compressor: XDCAM EX 1080i60

I normally have render control set to "Same as Sequence Codec". Your suggesting that I change to ProRes?

When I use the XDCAM Transfer program or FCP's Log And Transfer, do both programs recognize the correct format of the clips? I'm assuming that they do. I'm just curious if it's possible that these clips were imported/converted in the wrong format?

Master clips checked how?
Jog through the clip so you can see frame by frame change. Hard drive speed and decode wouldn't be an issue. You'd need a discerning eye.

Yes change the render control to ProRes. FX such as Dissolves will render quickly and play back smoothly.

Thanks again Craig for getting back so quickly.

I basically played back the same clips in my browser and they were jumping and the same points that they jump in my sequence. When I say "jump" I mean it looks like the video sticks at that specific point every so slightly. My client didn't say anything about this to me so I may be getting overly critical about what I'm seeing.

After changing the render control to ProRes I do see a smoother playback on the edited sequences.

I mention yet again you must jog through frame by frame to see what was recorded. If you're "playing back" you're relying on the hard drive speed/throughput and the speed of the system to decode. I'm not sure why you don't get this.

Our problems are with the highest bit rate HD XDCAM -- just chokes the system when it comes time to render or output -- best to edit in a prores timeline - must faster on the tail end for us.

As for time saving with the Calibrated Software - the time saved is in waiting for Log and Transfer to rewrap MXF files into Quicktime -- when you are under deadline - this is a big time saver.

Not have to rewrap is a major time saver. But you're still dealign with XDCAM regardless of the wrapper so there's no time savings on renders.

As to ProRes it really depends on not only what time but where and how utilized. Rendering a 5 minute timeline or even a 90 minute feature on final export might be faster than having to first transcode 10 hours or 100 hours of source files to ProRes first.
Renders on an MacPro 8 Core Desktop are reasonable for me. They are extremely show on a MacBook Pro though.

One can't make a generalization which workflow is better. There are just too many variables.

Craig wrote-
[A MacBook Pro might be stressed if you're layering multiple EX files but my 15" MacBook Pro 2008 handles a single layer of EX files flawlessly coming from a good firewire 400 drive. ]

This sounds an awful lot like the AMA (Avid Media Access) scheme on Media Composer. AMA relies on custom plugins from the actual camera manufacturers to achieve instant linking and playback of native codecs-- right from the camera card! This is a very sexy demo. But their own docs tell you that things like multicam editing in native formats is not supported, and experts like Steve Cohen in his new book Avid Agility will tell you to transcode to DNxHD flavors-- Avid's version of ProRes codecs-- for best performance.

In a few years of hardware improvement, this may be a non-issue. Right now for mission critical of multilayered timelines, it is very much an issue. Right now, transcoding seems to be the reliable recipe.

- Loren

Today's FCP 7 keytip:
Play from Playhead to Out Mark with Shift-P !

Your Final Cut Studio KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

Yeah the AMA does make for a cool demo.

In practice my problem with it was you couldn't mess with metadata within AVID too much or you might break the links. For a multicam show with fast UNITY drives none of the AMA stuff had a proper reel name so dupe detection wouldn't work. Looking it up, others had run in to this issue and the solution was to a) transcode or b) not use multicam. The Assistant had an issue at the end with exporting OMFs from AMA projects but I don't know what that issue was or whether it got resolved.

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!

"I mention yet again you must jog through frame by frame to see what was recorded. If you're "playing back" you're relying on the hard drive speed/throughput and the speed of the system to decode."

best of both worlds can be had by using OPTION P
this will "play" the timeline, but will take as long is it needs to show each frame with max resolution (as much as the FCP canvas can show, anyway)


nick

On reading your post, you said, "When ever the camera does a slow pan or tilt the footage gets jumpy.", caught my attention. I'm usually a one man show at my company, so I shoot as well as edit almost all of our video. I'm not sure how "jumpy" your footage is, but there's an Optical Image Stabilizer (OIS) feature on many camcorders, and that feature almost made me crazy about 18 months ago. A temp guy helped me shoot some talking head video, and he activated the "OIS" without me knowing (which you should almost never do when using a tripod). When he followed the talent, almost every time the talent slowed his pace, or stopped walking, there would be a little, what I call "overshoot", (as if the cameraman was anticipating the talent to keep walking and went just a little too far, and then panned backwards ever so slightly). At first I thought he was just a bad cameraman, but then noticed the same on video I know I shot while he was on break. Turns out, it was the "OIS" trying to put some stability into the situation. The same thing happens when you tilt with the "OIS" activated. If the ONLY time you notice, "jumpy" video is during a slow pan or tilt, it may not be a hardware issue. You might want to check with your videographer to see if that could be a factor.

I was reading this post, because I do have choppy video playback with XDCAM EX video and I am trying to figure out why, but I thought this might be worth mentioning in your case.

And, back to choppy video, I got some ideas from all the suggestions above, and hopefully something will help.

Quote
coachjb2u
At first I thought he was just a bad cameraman, but

How is not knowing your camera settings a good thing?


Thanks for the post. Good info about camera settings that a lot of people miss. People should always get in the habit of restoring factory defaults on cameras and then setting them up properly prior to use. Not doing so is just asking for trouble...


-Dave

Nick Meyers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I mention yet again you must jog through frame by
> frame to see what was recorded. If you're "playing
> back" you're relying on the hard drive
> speed/throughput and the speed of the system to
> decode."
>
> best of both worlds can be had by using OPTION P
> this will "play" the timeline, but will take as
> long is it needs to show each frame with max
> resolution (as much as the FCP canvas can show,
> anyway)
>
>
> nick

Good tip Nick, thanks!