VHS for editing in FCP then compression for DVD

Hi Champs - digitising VHS for editing in FCP then compression for DVD . . . .

whats the best way to go about this, many conversion techniques seem to transfer it to an already compressed format, i want as large and best quality/res as possible, to trim in FCP and THEN compress for dvd . .

any success stories to be shared on this, software/hardware required?

Many thanks,
Bluey

Not sure what you tried. The best possible method I can think of is to play it from a professional svhs deck (they play and record to vanilla VHS from what I remember) and play it through component (if not available, then s-video), calibrate your picture and audio, and capture it as 8 or 10 bit uncompressed through a capture card.

One of these would be awesome, as it does component outs:
[pro.jvc.com]

Good luck finding these, but heck, it IS VHS. You will see the limitations of the format anyway.



www.strypesinpost.com

I know you don't want to compress, but ProRes 422 is more than good enough for VHS.


bluey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Champs - digitising VHS for editing in FCP then
> compression for DVD . . . .
>
> whats the best way to go about this, many
> conversion techniques seem to transfer it to an
> already compressed format, i want as large and
> best quality/res as possible, to trim in FCP and
> THEN compress for dvd . .
>
> any success stories to be shared on this,
> software/hardware required?
>
> Many thanks,
> Bluey

yeah, ProsRes is fine.

either way you might want to try some noise reduction:
[www.neatvideo.com]


cheers,
nick

What the other guys said is fine. You probably will capture off composite through a capture card from a consumer deck. Capturing as ProRes is fine and dandy.



www.strypesinpost.com

prores422 would be great, it is only of course dv, and the noise, the 'vcr-ness' of it is part of the piece, although i will look at the noise reduction.

so what actual

"play it from a professional svhs deck (they play and record to vanilla VHS from what I remember) and play it through component (if not available, then s-video), calibrate your picture and audio, and capture it as 8 or 10 bit uncompressed through a capture card."

no access to a vanilla vhs or the like, with an s-video lead and a vcr, how would i get it into FCP - via log and capture?

Cheers,
Bluey

Do you have a capture card? Or deck? Or are you using a camera only for capture?

Connect the output of your VHS player - you must have one of these or you can't play the tape at all - to the input of your deck or capture card. If it's a deck, make sure it is set to 'EE' or 'E to E' to allow the signal to pass through. Open Log and Capture, and make sure it is set to capture 'non-controllable device' PLay the VHS. Hit capture in FCP.

You can also get dedicated convertors like a .. umm what was it called .. a box that converts an analogue signal to a digital one.. nope, I can't remember the brand name, although I have one somewhere. Someone else will chime in I'm sure.

are you saying the VHS is now on DV?
then yes, just log & capture.

or are you playing the VHS through a DV device (camera or deck)?
if so, you'd just do a capture now, with Device Control set to "Non Controllable Device"


nick

(chiming in canopus

Canopus! Thank you.

nope, excuse me - the vhs was (obviously) shot on dv, is what i ment.

so i connect the vcr to a dv-deck that is then connected to my mac . . . i then log and capture . . ."Connect the output of your VHS player - you must have one of these or you can't play the tape at all - to the input of your deck or capture card. If it's a deck, make sure it is set to 'EE' or 'E to E' to allow the signal to pass through. Open Log and Capture, and make sure it is set to capture 'non-controllable device' PLay the VHS. Hit capture in FCP. "

. . .and i set the log and capture to take the signal and import as prores (?)

Thanks champs
Bluey,

"the vhs was (obviously) shot on dv, is what i meant."

i still dont know what that means!

"i then... etc, etc"

yes

the material was shot on dv and then recorded to videotape (?) what else would it mean?

Quote
Nick Meyers
"i then... etc, etc"

yes

i couldn't make sense of your last two comments either or to what they were referring.

Regards,
Bluey

>the material was shot on dv and then recorded to videotape (?) what else would it mean?

If it means what I think you mean, I have no idea why you'd do that, besides wanting the super lofi look.


>>i couldn't make sense of your last two comments either or to what they were referring.

>and i set the log and capture to take the signal and import as prores (?)



www.strypesinpost.com

"besides wanting the super lofi look." - i'm lifting footage from an old vhs tape, of course it'd look 'lo-fi'.

there really isn't any cohesive structure to the points being raised here, just random statements without context questioning other peoples statements.

think it was my fault. cheers anyway

Bluey,

Okay. We're all lost now. You shot on DV (aka DV 25Mb/s 4:2:0 or 4:1:1 in NTSC regions) and you dubbed that onto VHS tape. We have no idea why you would do that, short of doing an experimental film.

>a box that converts an analogue signal to a digital one

An AD converter. BMD makes them too...

[www.blackmagic-design.com]

From what I remember the canopus doesn't do component and it goes out as DV due to the firewire throughput.



www.strypesinpost.com

Is it archival stuff? I mean, was it shot a long time ago on DV and saved on VHS, and now you only have the VHS copy? If yes, then go with the above advice. If no, why not capture from the DV tape it was shot on? MUCH less lossy process.

yes jude - it's archival stuff, videotape material. it's videotape. forget how the original footage was shot - the fact is this is just vhs material - the grain isn't an issue - it's ment to look like what it is - videotape, nothing else.

so i'll go with your initial suggestion jude?

Cheers,
Bluey

Because VHS is so flaky during capture, I always copy the VHS to our BetaSP machine first. Then I ingest into my FCP system via our AJA Kona boards.

With VHS straight in, the picture always seems to fall apart and tear during ingest. A BetaSP machine gives the FCP system a much more stable image. There is essentially zero visual or audio loss during the copy from VHS to BetaSP.

The other thing this does is give me timecode on the tape so if I ever have to recapture this footage in the future, it's a piece of cake. We just archive the BetaSP tape.

We've even upconverted VHS to HD using this method for a science series we do when the only available archive source of one scene was on VHS. Actually worked surprisingly well.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
biscardicreative.com

Our BetaSP is starting to glitch pink and green all over the place, and we can't get parts very easily anymore. I do miss that soft, forgiving picture..

An yeah Bluey - just choose any of the above methods that suit you and your equipment best.

Walter-

By dubbing to Beta you are fixing the timebase errors inherent in VHS due to the low cost mechanicals. You could also use a Frame Sync or TBC between the VHS and the capture card and get the same, or perhaps a bit better results. If you have a lot of material it could save you the time of making the dubs first.

-V

If the VHS is all you've got, there are methods to enhance the pix; dubbing is one solution, especially if dealing with really bad tearing and artifacts. Digital restoration using software tools is another.

I've used a $350.00 product called Topaz Enhance to bring back detail which really surprised me. A soft VHS video from a 16mm telecine of a playroom session actually came back with carpet texture! But this apparently doesn't work with ProRes codecs-- the result is half-height enhancement. The vendor doesn't respond to queries about this, preferring it seems to focus on its photography products. Darn shame.

I wonder if there are other affordable software tools out there which perform bi-directional sampling of neighboring frames to enhance every frame-- it's a clever idea and it really works on VHS transferred to DV.

- Loren

Today's FCP 7 keytip:
Play from Playhead to Out Mark with Shift-P !

Your Final Cut Studio KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

Does anyone know of a professional service that will take some old VHS tapes and convert to ProRes?

[www.kappastudios.com]

or


[www.timecodemultimedia.com]

lots of them will do this

Michael Horton
-------------------

Michael Horton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [www.kappastudios.com]
>
> or
>
>
> [www.timecodemultimedia.com]
>
> lots of them will do this


Thanks Michael, I just sent an inquiry to both your recommendations.

Cheers,

Elijah