Exporting a sequence of still images from FCP to DVD Pro

Nick Munning Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is off-topic, but I used the term Apple instead
> of Cmnd, because that's the way it was presented
> to me. I will admit that it threw me a little, but
> since all that I really care about is getting this
> problem fixed, I was able to overcome and go with
> the flow. Nevertheless, thanks to all who care to
> help.

Nick,

Disregard my previous comment about key terminology... Yes, it has nothing to do with your issue... It was a "side comment." Sorry.


-Dave

Quote
Ben King
..and if you see an Apple what you you call that key?

Well, the Macintosh has always had the command symbol (sometimes referred to as the "fan" symbol, Saint John's Arms, or place of interest sign in Unicode) on the key (and still does). The Apple symbol is now gone (for about four years now), so there's even more reason not to use the incorrect terminology ( "Apple- " ).

Again, Apple's documentation has never referred to that key as the "Apple key" or used the term "Apple- " .

(I had this point very well stressed to me many, many years ago, when I wrote some documentation for Apple in the late 1980s and early 1990s.)

From the latest (?) 2009 Apple Publications Style Guide:

Quote
Apple
Command key

On first use in print user documentation, identify the Command key with
its symbol: Command ( "command symbol" ) key. Thereafter, just use Command key. Don?t use Apple key.
It?s OK to use the Command key symbol in a list of shortcuts, e.g., "command symbol"-Option-Escape
or "command symbol"-Shift-Option-Delete.

In the quote above, I used "command symbol" instead of the actual symbol, as I couldn't get my post to work with the actual symbol or HTML equivalent used instead.

And, my original point has nothing to do with the existence of the Apple symbol on the key. It's about using the proper terminology for the name of the key.

I was just trying to encourage the use of the correct term (since the Apple symbol is now "history" )...



-Dave

Back on topic...

It may not be useful, but an alternative solution may be to try using iMovie, or even Keynote, for a simple slideshow of images. I think that iPhoto can also save slideshows to a QT movie (though, maybe not with overlaid text and multiple transition types).

DVD Studio Pro can also create a slideshow using still images (but again, if you're using text overlays, this doesn't help).

Any of the Apple Pro Training series books for FCP, DVD Studio Pro, etc. should be quite helpful, in lieu of struggling with the manuals (which are great references, but not so good when first learning the application). Lynda.com has terrific video tutorials, as well. There are many free videos on using FCP on YouTube, as well.

I hope you figure this out. What you're trying to do is pretty simple... too bad the SW is "getting in the way"...


-Dave

Thanks, Dave, for the tutorial suggestions, I will pursue them.

In the meantime, yes, I have used iDVD and can make a simple DVD which is restricted to only 99 photos (I have a lot more, maybe 200 for this personal project), but I wanted to force myself to learn how to use DVD Pro so I can advance in this area. I want to learn how to make chapters with clever presentations, etc. I could use iDVD and break down my sequence into smaller segments, but that would not get me to where I want to be.

I did find the dialogue about the Apple key informative.

Now, back to trying Derek's suggestions since I've Repaired my Permissions

Thanks, Nick

Derek, I've tried all of the other things you suggested. Now I'm down to - "Also try exporting a reference movie file instead. That might get you past the DVD stage either via Compressor or directly in DVD Studio Pro." How do I export a reference movie file? What is a reference movie file?

Okay, I did everything Derek suggested except trying to export a movie reference file because I don't know what that is. BUT, I did also try exporting to QuickTime Conversion and it is exporting! I still have about 3 hours left so it must be dong something good. Now I hope I can get it into DVD Pro. Any suggestions?

Okay, just as I finished typing the last note, that said I had 3 hrs left, it shut off. I do have the full sequence saved in documents, but when I tried to Import Asset (only 529 MB, QuickTime Movie, Duration 21 min) I again got the message "Incompatible Format". Very discouraging.

Nick Munning Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, just as I finished typing the last note,
> that said I had 3 hrs left, it shut off. I do have
> the full sequence saved in documents, but when I
> tried to Import Asset (only 529 MB, QuickTime
> Movie, Duration 21 min) I again got the message
> "Incompatible Format". Very discouraging.

Nick,

You are not following the correct procedure. And, it seems, you are trying to use several of the pro applications without having adequate time to learn on your own, or without any formal training. These are not apps you can "just start using" like iMovie or iDVD and figure things out on-the-fly.

If this is a project that needs to get done right away, you should consider using iMovie and/or iDVD.

Or, slow down a bit and do some training. The Final Cut Studio manuals are quite useful for learning about workflows, proper terminology, and general technical information. Reading the first few chapters of the Final Cut Studio Workflows, DVD Studio Pro, Final Cut Pro (look for DVD related info), Compressor, etc. manuals is very useful.

-----

When you edit in FCP, you can use any number of codecs. Let's say you are using regular DV-25, i.e., standard definition DV/DVCPro NTSC at 29.97 fps.

In order to get to DVD Studio Pro, you need to fully render and export your main sequence, using Export QuickTime (QT) movie (not QuickTime conversion). In the export dialog window, you can select "self-contained" or "reference" movie types. You can also choose "sequence settings" to keep the same codec (which you should probably do).

Following that advice, you would end up with a DV/DVCPro NTSC QuickTime movie file of about 4.5 GB for 21 minutes of video. Or, if you use a reference QT movie type file, you will have a very small file that "points" to the render files and the original media files (and it will be much smaller because of that).

From here, you can use Compressor to make an MPEG-2 video file, and a Dolby Digital audio file, both of which can be imported into DVD Studio Pro. This gives you more control over the final quality.

Alternatively, you can take your DV QT movie file, or reference file, and import that into DVD Studio Pro. In this case, DVD Studio Pro will convert your audio and video for you (into MPEG-2 and Dolby Digital).

However, if you mistakenly export something like an H.264 or other MPEG-4 QuickTime movie file from FCP, DVD Studio will give you the error message you mentioned. These file formats are for final delivery (usually) and DVD Studio Pro won't use them.

I did a quick test and created a DV/DVCPro NTSC sequence in FCP and just added a text generator. I exported that using QT conversion to an H.264 QT movie file. DVD Studio Pro gave me the same error message as you got, when I tried to import that file.

Does this clear things up, even a little?



-Dave

With all the problems you're having, such as crashes, I'd say you have a more fundamental problem. Corrupt media? JPEGs in CMYK mode driving FCP crazy? Using a USB drive that can barely handle DV media, let alone Uncompressed 8-bit? Using print-quality still images that are 20000 pixels across? Pirated software that doesn't work properly? Your settings are wrong because you can't tell the correct settings on sight?

I'm with Dave at this point...I think you're missing too much fundamental knowledge for us to nail down your problem. Troubleshooting is about ruling things out, but right now it seems like you could have 12 things wrong with your setup and workflow, and we won't be able to nail it down because any one, two or five things could be combining to cause problems. You shoot one down, another comes up -- and without being there, we can't know whether the original thing was wrong in the first place.

So I would say, go back to your DV sequence, export that, and work with it. While Nick Meyers and I suggested the 8-bit route for better quality, I don't even know if your system can support it, and it seems to me even more issues cropped up once you switched over.


www.derekmok.com

Dave, thank you very much. Yes, your info does help me and I understand that I need training, and honestly, I have tried to read about it long before I started asking for advice. I will continue to do so and seek more help from tutorials. I was hoping to make this a special DVD for my son & finance'. I will take a breath, step back and work on this with your suggestions in mind and if to no avail, then I'll have to resort to the iDVD route.

Thanks again to all of you, Nick

Your right, Derek. No, I'm not using a USB, my pictures are reduced to the size I mentioned at the onset, no I have no pirated software, and I will learn and I do appreciate your help. Thanks, Nick

My MacPro keyboard still has an apple on it, rather than the word command, or cmd.

Nick. Maybe you should try a test. Make a whole new project. Import something else into it. Make a one minute timeline with the new footage. Then export. Same problem, or does this work out OK?

My Mac Book Pro has an Apple on it, but my keyboard for my Mac Pro doesn't. Thanks, Jude, that's a good idea. I'll do a small project and see what happens.

Back on topic, I question the whole ide aof processing a slide show insid eof FCP.

Why not import the slides as assets to be arranged any way you like inside DVD Studio Pro?

For a couple hundred slides you'd need two slideshows or one slideshow linked to a second for a continuous experience (each slideshow up to 99 photos allowed).

You can add transitions, set durations, and even set a manual click for advance. You can add a sound track, triggered by slides.

Far superior to an exported FCP sequence of slides, which as you've read, often lowers the resolution and steps on the image if you use the wrong codec, and you can't re-arrange it in DVDSP. Since you're going to DVD end use, I would use the DVD slideshow feature, it's great.

- Loren

Today's FCP 7 keytip:
Play from Playhead to Out Mark with Shift-P !

Your Final Cut Studio KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

Thank you, Loren. I will certainly give that a try. But I still have the problem of not being able to export to a QuickTime Movie even after I tried Jude's suggestion of a one minute test in FCP. Of interest, perhaps, is that when I tried using the sequence setting of Photo JPEG I got 22 sec's of video instead of 2 sec's when using uncompressed 8-bit. I know Derek isn't impressed with that, but it still makes me wonder why one codec will allow me to go farther into the video than another. I do realize that I have an infantile knowledge of this whole aspect, but I am determined to learn. One good thing that has come out of this is that I have learned quite a bit. Well, I've never used the slideshow feature in DVD Pro so this will give me the opportunity to tread into unchartered territory.

One other thought....can I copy & paste segments of my present segment into DVD Pro or do I have to start my project from scratch?

Thanks again, to all of you, Nick

> when I tried using the sequence setting of Photo JPEG I got 22 sec's of video instead of
> 2 sec's when using uncompressed 8-bit.

Could be some kind of file-size "roof". Check FCP's System Settings - "Limit Capture/Export File Segment Size To" setting.


www.derekmok.com

My pics are 720x480, 72 dpi resolution. I'll follow-up on your suggestion when I get time tonight. Thanks, Nick

> it still makes me wonder why one codec will allow me to go farther into the video than another

It doesn't. It sounds like a frame rate mismatch. Are you exporting through QuickTime conversion or using export>QuickTime movie but not exporting as "current settings"?

A file size limit on 22 secs in SD sounds ridiculously short.



www.strypesinpost.com

> A file size limit on 22 secs in SD sounds ridiculously short.

Yeah, it does, even if it's Uncompressed. Also doesn't explain why a 21-minute movie file exported successfully in DV -- it would have come to 5-6GB, which should have allowed for at least 5-6 minutes of Uncompressed SD.


www.derekmok.com

I am not using Quick Time Conversion - I only tried that once to see what would happen. I am using the Current settings. I have tried a number of variables, and not in a hap-hazard way, just experimental. I find it hard to believe that my system w/ 10 GB of memory, and 180GB of HD and a 2.27 GHz Quad Core intel processor, Pics of 720x480 res @ 72 dpi won't handle what I'm trying to do. Not even a one minute sequence.

Perhaps, like Derek eluded to, there is something wrong with my software.
Would it be a good idea to re-install DVD Pro? I've never had to re-install so not sure of the safest way to do it. It just doesn't want to export the full movie. Darn!

> Would it be a good idea to re-install DVD Pro?

If FCP won't export the movie, the problem is farther up in your pipeline. DVD Studio Pro has nothing to do with it. Don't start mucking with everything; work the problematic stage. What happened when you tried exporting to a different drive location? You said you "tried everything I suggested", but you didn't tell us what exactly the results were. "It didn't work" doesn't give us much to go on.

Try this. Your entire timeline is stills, right? Copy just the second half of your timeline to a new DV Sequence and export. Did it go through? If so, switch to an Uncompressed 8-bit SD Sequence and try again. It's possible for one piece of corrupt media to foul up the export (again, still doesn't explain why the initial DV movie went through).

And what exactly went wrong when you tried to use the initial DV NTSC movie file directly in DVD Studio Pro without going through Compressor?


www.derekmok.com

I'm away from my computer at home now, but I'm pretty sure that when I tried to import the DV NTSC movie file directly into DVD Studio, without going through Compressor, I got an "Incompatible Format" message. But I think that was using QuickTime Conversion (which is the only way I can get the whole video to reproduce and play on my computer, but I now know that is not the way you want me to go - it was just experimental.

"And what exactly went wrong when you tried to use the initial DV NTSC movie file directly in DVD Studio Pro without going through Compressor?" I guess I'm not sure about this answer. I'm going to have to try it when I get home tonight.

Remember, I made a new project test sequence of one minute, like Jude had suggested, using different photos but the same photo format. And I used 3 different sequence settings, a) DV NTSC,(2 sec) b) Uncompressed 8 bit (2 sec) and c) Photo JPEG ( 22 sec)at 75% as suggested. I am trying to do all this systematically the best I know how to provide you with the best info.

Don't worry, I'm not going to make any big moves like re-installing unless you guys suggest it. I'm trying to pay close attention to what you are suggesting, I just have to work through some of the lingo. I realize my inexperience and lack of knowledge makes your help more difficult. I appreciate you hanging in there. Just to be sure; when you say, "Copy just the second half of your timeline to a new DV Sequence and export", DV Sequence means a new project in FCP, right? And yes, I am working with stills, but I do have scrolling text in various areas with fun transitions between each still.

Nick,

I don't know why nobody suggested it already (including me --- maybe, someone has?), but why not take some screen shots of your setup, timeline, sequence settings, export window settings... as much as you can. Then, put them into an archive (if there are more than a few) and upload them, so that we can take a look at what you are doing/seeing. Alternatively, you could upload the files to a place like Dropbox and insert the URLs here using the "Insert image URL" button.


-Dave

Dave, I'll be glad to do that. Maybe a screen shot of my Mac info if you need it. One thing, I've never heard of Dropbox so would need to know how to do that. I'll be home in a couple of hours. Thanks for caring, Nick

Nick,

Dropbox is one of many free (and paid) file hosting services. It's free to store up to 2 GB of data. Dropbox is nice, as it integrates well with the Finder in Mac OS X. You put a file into your Public Dropbox folder and right/control-click to get the URL for the file and use that to post here. The local Dropbox folders on your Mac will auto-sync with the Dropbox site.


-Dave

Exporting to an external HD does the same as on my Mac HD. When I say it didn't work I mean it tries to export for about 1-2 sec then stops. It leaves a brief 2 sec video to wherever I saved it. Just to be clear, I'm now working with the new one minute sequence I referred to previously, per Jude's suggestion. That way we aren't dealing with the possibility of it being too long or whatever - (I guess). I'm going to try to put up some screen shots as Dave suggested. Nick

Okay, here goes my Dropbox URL. I hope this helps. I think this is only one screen. I have 7 of them. I guess I don't know how to "archive" like Dave suggested.

[dl.dropbox.com]

[dl.dropbox.com]

[dl.dropbox.com]

[dl.dropbox.com]

[dl.dropbox.com]

[dl.dropbox.com]

[dl.dropbox.com]

Remember, this is the one minute new sequence, new project

Nick

The dropbox links work perfectly.

For this test, could you change your sequence settings to straight DV? jpeg at 75% quality is a complication for this troubleshoot.

Just click on the 'load sequence preset' button at the bottom of the sequence settings dialogue box as per your first pic and choose DV NTSC. You might have to rerender.

Apart from that, it's starting to look like a software problem to me. What you're trying to do is ridiculously simple for FCP.

The frame size is wrong. It's 480, not 486.



www.strypesinpost.com

I tried again and it stopped abruptly.

[dl.dropbox.com]