RS422 & 422(LT)

Long time lurker on this forum.....first time poster.

I seem to be coming up blank with what is possibly, a very simple answer. Here's my situation.

Up until earlier this year, all my shooting was done in 4:3 aspect ratio SD, but I have taken the plunge and moved to shooting 16:9 1920x1080 HD.

I use two cameras. Camera#1 is a Sony file based camera that records in AVCHD. Camera#2 is a Sony Mini DV. I have both of these cameras set within the menus, to shoot 16:9 1080i HD. The Mini DV goes in an underwater housing. The file based flash drive camera I use for above water scenics.

I guess my biggest lack of understanding is in the correct settings to use for capture presets and capture settings etc. At the present moment, and after checking the item properties of the clips in the browser, my AVCHD footage is being "Logged & Transferred" as RS422 (LT), but my Mini DV footage is being "Logged & Captured" as RS422. All these clips will be going on the same timeline, in the same sequence. So my concern is that I may be running into a mixed timeline situation. My concern of course is as a result of my lack of knowhow as to the difference between RS422 & RS422(LT). None of these clips (AVCHD or Mini DV) need rendered when dropped in the timeline. So I have come to the conclusion that I must be doing something right.

I am editing with FCP 7.0.3 on an iMac OS 10.6.8. G-Raid external hard drive as scratch disc.

I'd sorely love if some knowledgable, patient person would take pity on a "not too savvy" Scotsman and in the simplest of terms, paint me a picture of how to set my system settings properly to avoid running into a brick wall down the road a piece. Or otherwise, confirm that I'm not in the process of doing anything really dumb!!

Thanks in advance.

Scotty.

We need to clear up a few things.

> Camera#1 is a Sony file based camera that records in AVCHD. Camera#2 is a Sony Mini DV.
> I have both of these cameras set within the menus, to shoot 16:9 1080i HD.

A Mini-DV camera can't shoot HD. You probably mean HDV.

> my AVCHD footage is being "Logged & Transferred" as RS422 (LT), but my Mini DV
> footage is being "Logged & Captured" as RS422.

RS-422 is not a codec. In video editing, it is used for a computer to communicate with a video deck -- "Device Control".

What you mean are ProRes 422 and ProRes LT, Apple's video codecs.

What format the AVCHD transcodes to is determined by you. In the Log and Transfer window, click on the button on the left half (the file list), top right corner, and go into Preferences. Look at what your AVCHD is set to transcode to. I'd use ProRes 422 instead of ProRes LT.


www.derekmok.com

Derek....thanks for correcting me on all my incorrect terminology. Much appreciated.

I went into the preferences box, as per your suggestions. My 4 choices are:

Source Format Target Format
MPEG2 Consumer Camera
MPEG 2SD Apple ProRes

P2 Plugin
P2 AVC-Intra Native

AVCHD Plugin
AVCHD Apple ProRes 422(LT)

AC-3 Audio Matrix Stereo

So I take it that your suggestion is for me to select the top one.......MPEG 2SD.......Apple ProRes?????

Scotty.

No...AVCHD plugin.


www.derekmok.com

Many thanks Derek....that's cleared things up a bit. Now If I can just figure out the correct settings to put into all these confusing options in the Audio/Video settings pane, I'll have it made.

So if I'm 100% clear, each time I open FCP to do any Logging & Transferring of the file based footage, I have to open that little preference pane in the log and transfer window, then highlight in blue......the line which states "AVCHD Plugin"???

Scotty.

> each time I open FCP to do any Logging & Transferring of the file based footage, I have
> to open that little preference pane in the log and transfer window

No, you don't. Once you set the preference -- as with all FCP preferences -- it stays put until you change it, or if you delete the FCP preference files.

But as a matter of form, it's a good idea to open up the settings and check them every time a new set of captures/transfers takes place.

> Now If I can just figure out the correct settings to put into all these confusing options
> in the Audio/Video settings pane

It sounds to me like you need an FCP teacher. Take a class. Many people get into trouble because they try to figure out everything themselves, and they miss fundamentals that come back to bite them when they have a real project and real deadline.


www.derekmok.com

By the way, the difference between Log and Capture and Log and Transfer is only the utility used to capture the footage. Your DV camera requires coming in over Firewire, and your AVCHD camera probably uses USB, so they have different 'programs' in FCP to get the vision in. After that, there is really no difference, because when you get the settings right they are both being 'converted' to ProRes during capture. So don't let that part worry you.

Thanks for the additional info Jude. Much appreciate it.

So I guess the only part of my original question I still am a bit fuzzy on is this. "With some footage captured/transferred with ProRes 422.....and some footage captured/transferred as ProRes 422 (LT)....will it cause a problem on my timeline"??

Scotty.

> "With some footage captured/transferred with ProRes 422.....and some footage
> captured/transferred as ProRes 422 (LT)....will it cause a problem on my timeline"??

I would re-transfer the ProRes LT material to ProRes 422. It's not a major problem to mix the two, but why would you want to complicate your specs unnecessarily? Make a choice. If you want to conserve disk space, go ProRes LT all the way. If you want to err on the side of preserving video quality, go ProRes 422 all the way.

I don't know if you have enough awareness of the entire picture to make that choice. Get somebody involved -- post supervisor, experienced editor/assistant editor. Outline your entire project strategy to him/her. You need somebody in your post process who sees the big picture. It doesn't just boil down to "good" and "better". For example:

1. What's your budget?

2. How much storage do you have? How fast is it?

3. What is the intended target mastering format? Distribution format? Are you doing the offline/online workflow, or are you just going to have all your footage be at online quality from the get-go?

4. Are you actually done with the shoot? How much more are you shooting?

And so on, and so on. For example, if this is just an offline edit, and re-transferring from the original tapeless masters is possible, then you might want to go with ProRes LT. If you have a very short deadline, say two days from end of shoot to picture lock, then transfer to the highest-quality format from the start, such as ProRes 422 or ProRes HQ. (HQ would probably be overkill for footage from an HDV or AVCHD source, but the principle is the same.)

If you have mountains of footage and not enough budget to buy enough backup storage space, then you might even consider ProRes Proxy -- edit the footage and then re-transfer only the footage in the edit. And if you made a decision like that, if I were the editor, I'd insist on testing the process. Take one card's worth of tapeless masters, transfer to ProRes Proxy, do a quick test edit, and then see if it will Media Manager/online properly.

See, it's not that simple. You need somebody with a "macro" view of the process and enough experience to help you make these decisions.


www.derekmok.com

However, if you're locked on shooting, and have already captured all your footage and have a tight deadline, it will not cause you significant problems to mix those two formats. But like Derek says, you should do some more research before the next job, so you can get all the footage to the same place before you start cutting.

So, while you're not doing anything 'really dumb', you could improve your workflow.

Derek,

Is there a noticeable difference in quality between 422 vs LT?

"Notice" depends on how good your eye is, how complex the footage, etc. Personally, I never go lower than ProRes 422 for editing. But I do a lot of short form, so I can see situations where, for example, a feature documentary would want to use ProRes LT or ProRes Proxy because the raw footage-final edit ratio would be so high, and having the raw footage at online quality would be a gigantic waste of space and bandwidth.


www.derekmok.com

I do not recommend LT for a final unless you really have no choice -

But LT is pretty damn good if the footage is reasonably well lit.

However like low bandwidth H.264 it can suffer in the large areas of subtle gradients (esp. black) with compression artefacts and also around high contrast areas such as graphics/text.

It may be perfectly passable for News or documentary but wherever possible I use PR422.

I've just been editing our latest feature in LT and overall it's great but there are a few quality issues so be aware - for us the final grade will be done from the original RED footage so in this case its just for offline.

I posted a bit on this subject along with XDCAM and datarate with few examples:

[www.lafcpug.org]



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

What about if the orginal footage is from a 5D/7D? Would you reccomend eschewing Pro Res LT and going back the original .h264 for the grade?

H.264 is a capture and delivery format. You don't want to use it for anything other than uploading to Vimeo or YouTube once you've finsihed shooting. So, no. Don't grade in H.264.

I don't use the sound from my clips, therefore I think it might save time and file size to omit the sound (L&T), as Toast Convert allows us to deselect.

Am I concerned about the trivial?

Independent photographer, film maker and Producer. In the wonderful UK.

> Am I concerned about the trivial?

Yes. Audio takes up a very small fraction of storage space. You won't save any time at all in terms of conversion.

I would say, always capture the audio. Because if you happen to need one tiny bit and didn't capture/ingest it, you would have to redo the capture/ingest. If you don't need the audio while editing, turn off the Source/Destination button for audio in your timeline.


www.derekmok.com

I just got a new camera in the US before heading to Europe and the UK. Panasonic TM900. It, my MacMini, my Sony z55, my external HDDs all fit in my regulation size carryon bag.

I have the TM900 set for HG1920. My end product is SD DVD in DSP.

Prior to this camera, from my beloved DVX100, to my awful Sony HD1, to a Sony hand held HD, to footage acquired from other shooters on tape or memory card, I have always started right from 720x480, either Log & Capture for tape, or Toast convert, for editing and outputting to .mov from FCP 7.

For the past few days, I have been failing time after time thinking that I should start higher, to end with better looking 720x480. (Which never looked that badl on computer screens or set top DVD players).

The killer is the jaggies, the jagged edges between light backgrounds and flesh- to tan-colored people. Like along their arms, or chins.

FCP7 Log & Transfer ProRes422 and 422(Lt), huge big old black jaggies. Toast ProRes422(Lt) tiny jaggies - like when you zoom in on a PhotoShop jpeg to use the pencil tool to zap some black lines and you're zoomed in so far that you see square pixels.

Of course, video doesn't have square pixels.

I don't get why these expensive cameras record video that just don't work out of the box. I so miss the miniDV tape days, when I'd shoot an hour, let the G5 ingest for an hour, good looking 720x480 .mov, cut it up, output 720x480 into DSP, and a good looking DVD.

Now with HD and AVCHD - everything looks fuzzy or has the jaggies. How long ago did you Pros win these battles? I never had the jaggies with tape.

Is it FCP 7? Is it time for FCP X? Or step down to iMovie? Or abandon ship to PrP?

Oh, no! Here I am, trying to compress and deinterlace my old Avid deck control cable... no wonder nothing works.

Seriously, @Nick --

[Of course, video doesn't have square pixels.]

Analog doesn't; digital does!

- Loren

Today's FCP 7 keytip:
Advance to next/previous keyframes in a clip with Shift/Option-K !

Your Final Cut Studio KeyGuide? Power Pack
with FCP7 KeyGuide --
now available at KeyGuide Central.
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