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Apple ProRES LT

Posted by Rupert_Foxx 
Apple ProRES LT
March 24, 2012 08:10AM
I have 30 hours footage of Mini DV of the making of a low-budget film. I said I'd cut it for the producers. I was wondering because it's Mini DV PAL, would Apple ProRES LT be fine quality to use?

The footage was shot on a single CCD Sony PC-8.
Re: Apple ProRES LT
March 24, 2012 08:26AM
Just use Apple DV PAL...

You won't gain anything by ingesting ProRes LT apart from a load of redundant 0s & 1s that will fill up your HDD!

If it was shot widescreen on the PC-8 you will find that its a faux widescreen and pretty ropey footage.

This is because the DCR-PC series (I have an old PC5 lying around somewhere!) does not have a widescreen sensor.

Instead it does a 16:9 crop on the sensor then expands the image vertically to 4:3 recording. This is then played back stretched horizontally to widescreen as per usual.

But regardless - use the Apple DV PAL (anamorphic if it was shot widescreen) easy set-up in FCP.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]
Re: Apple ProRES LT
March 24, 2012 06:02PM
Rupert:
I second Ben's advice -- stay in DV-PAL.

But not Ben's reason that conversion to ProRes LT will make "a load of redundant 0s & 1s that will fill up your HDD!" The ProRes LT file (in PAL resolution) will be just 10% larger than the DV file.

When you consider that the ProRes LT will be fake 4:2:2 from the original DV-PAL's 4:2:0, and fake 10-bit (made, in a way, by adding 0s to the original 8-bit), such ProRes LT is of no higher image quality than DV. (I think strypes and I verified this experimentally in 2010). Then the real mistake in converting DV to ProRes LT -- transcoding from one codec to a different codec of approximately the same image quality -- is that there will be a visible loss in image quality.

You'd need to have a reason for editing the DV-PAL material in ProRes. One possible reason is so you, or someone else, can to intercut non-DV-PAL material. If you are going to transcode the DV-PAL to ProRes then I advise non-LT ProRes.

Dennis Couzin
Berlin, Germany
Re: Apple ProRES LT
March 24, 2012 06:34PM
Quote

The ProRes LT file (in PAL resolution) will be just 10% larger than the DV file.

10% which gets you nothing...

...ergo lots of bits of redundant data.

Any conversion to another format - even DV to ProRes will give you a generational loss even if the compression of the destination format is less than that of your source.

Admittedly these days barely noticeable but its there nonetheless and with DV you certainly don't want to have any more image degradation.

If you want to see the loss of ProRes to ProRes - put some color bars on a ProRes Timeline - export a ProRes QT movie then import the export - overlay on your Timeline and choose Difference layer mode. Any difference in the files will show as detail and anything the same will show as black.

Just showed a colleague today the generational loss between ProRes flavours. Minor tho it is. It is still worth noting. Especially for Graphics and FX work.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]
Re: Apple ProRES LT
March 25, 2012 01:24AM
If you're in the PAL world, you can do your final render in DV50. This preserves the field dominance and field order and DV50 is less lossy on renders (twice the bitrate). In the NTSC world, you can choose to render as Uncompressed or Prores HQ for your final output.

Basically, don't convert the rushes as it's a waste of time and generationally lossy, unless you transcode to Uncompressed 8 or 10 bits.



www.strypesinpost.com
Re: Apple ProRES LT
March 25, 2012 03:48AM
Totally. Doing the final Master in DV50 will also mean any graphics, FX and grading will retain more detail as its a 4:2:2 format.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]
Re: Apple ProRES LT
March 25, 2012 06:47AM
Thank you all for your help.

I'll stick to DV PAL.
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