Extenal microphone & connection

I need to record some voiceover for use in an FCP HD project. I don't have a mixer, so I need to plug a mic directly into the computer, or into some kind of interface. All the USB mics I've been able to find are like little toys. I don't need a super expensive studio mic, but a pretty decent on that records a speaking voice well enough for broadcast. Wondering if anyone can tell me the least expensive route, ie: what kind of mic (in the $50-$100 range) -- and, more importantly, what else is needed to connect it to the computer (pre-amp?, low cost mixer?), assuming there are no real mics w/USB connectors.

Using a G5 dual 2.0, running Panther. Thanks.

Jeff

you can always speak into the microphone of a video camera and capture live to disk or record it to a tape then capture. this works surprisingly well...

the best mic ive used in the "under $500" range is a sure sm57. you can pick those up at any good music store for just under $100.

[www.sweetwater.com]

and then you'll need some kind of audio interface - those will start at about $100 and go up quickly - and even the cheapest of them will do for a simple voice over. go here:

[www.apple.com]

I have an Audio-Technica AT3035 cardioid condenser that I think produces really great sound. It's very sensitive, though, so headphones are essential, and it does require phantom power, so I have a Tascam US-122 USB interface. Together they cost about $400. I agree with Wayne about the interface -- for voice-over work, you don't need anything fancy like the DigiDesign Mbox. That said, if you buy quality now, you'll get much more mileage in the long run when you want to expand the functionality of your system.

You can get a good mic and use an iMic adapter to get it into the computer. I use mine for FCP and Garage Band.

Kevin Monahan

What kind of connectors do most good mic's have, and does the iMic adapter take them?

You get it into FCP with what, the Voice Over tool? Is there another way to capture audio from a mic directly in, as an AIFF or QT file?

Thanks.

Jeff

> You can get a good mic and use an iMic adapter to get it into the computer. I
> use mine for FCP and Garage Band.

As do I, though for some reason, I'm unable to plug a microphone into my adapter and go straight into GarageBand. Hence the Tascam.

> What kind of connectors do most good mic's have, and does the iMic adapter
> take them?

Most microphones would have male XLR outputs, unless you're using those crappy mini-jack mikes intended for computers. You'll need an XLR-XLR male-female cable and an audio interface/mixer with XLR inputs. You can also use an XLR-1/4" female-male cable to use with the iMic adapter.

I wouldn't get all excited about the iMic.

Roughly 1/3 of the people who try it, leave it in a box in the garage like I did. It's so cheap (how cheap is it?) it's so cheap that they didn't isolate the power service from the USB connection. In real life what this means is many people are able to hear their hard disk spinning up and down and other normally silent computer activities.

I used mine for some engineering tests where the pops, girgles, and snaps didn't make any difference...and then I put it out in the garage.

Some people use it from first day no trouble, but I suspect if many of them listen carefully with headphones, they, too, will hear all the mystery noises in the background of their voiceover.

We get reallly good mileage out of our Radio Shack 33-3013 chest microphones. Some of our instructors mount it on a little soft pad and leave it on the desk instead of wearing it. Thast's not as bad as you think, because mounting it close to the desk gives you a sound boost to make up for not wearing it. You do have to not slam down your coffee, tho. This mic is internally powered and has an 1/8" plug.

Koz

Dude go with the audio technica 3035 you will not be sorry. i have been using Protools since version 5 and i probly know more about protool than i do about any program. So i have used a lot of mics and i am completely confident in the AT3035. For about your budget this is the mic + in the long term it has a lot of uses. better than a AKG tube or any marshell mic. tho for a lil less the marshel will be good if you dont mind tweaking the audio track for a lil more mid and bass.

Here's what you want: a decent cardiod condenser mic ($100) - doesn't matter which one for doing VO, a decent xlr cable ($15-30), a USB input device similar to M-Audio's USB Mobile Pre ($150) and a good set of phones ($70-100).

I've been using this setup for over a year now (specifically with the USB Mobile Pre) and have had no problems with FCP 4.0 or 4.5. Both versions recognized the Mobile Pre as and audio source.

This setup also works well with GarageBand and Cubase.

Josef

Thank you all.

Josef, are you saying that FCP will recognize the Mobile Pre connected via USB? I though FCP only recognized devices connected via Firewire.

Jeff

if it doesnt, you can always use the free copy of peak (dv/le) that came with your fcp...

> Josef, are you saying that FCP will recognize the Mobile Pre connected via
> USB? I though FCP only recognized devices connected via Firewire.

No, that's not true at all. My Tascam US-122 is also a USB device. However, I did have to download an updated driver before it would work properly with the Voice-Over tool in FCP. Your audio device should show up in FCP under Audio/Video Settings.

I know you can use other programs, but staying in FCP -- is there another way capture audio from a mic rather than FCP's VO Tool. I'd much rather just capture the VO as an AIFF or QT file using a standard Log & Capture window approach. Is that possible? Treating the incoming signal as some kind of "uncontrollable device" and use "Capture Now" -- or is that only possible with a F/W device?

man, ive been watching this thread and one thing keeps making me laugh.

i think its kind of funny (and i fully expect to get flamed for proposing this) that most people here are completely obsessed with the ins and outs of image quality but then use some gimply little radioshack 1/8" mic and a rinky-dink usb or worse interface...???

im not saying that the cheaper route wont work, i know that it "works" and ive heard a good number of pretty good results but...

maybe ive just been in the audio world too long but i can hear the difference between a $100 mic and an $500 (or more) mic about a mile away.
and there is no way that anyone is going to convince me that some usb interface is going to sound as good as a good tube (esque) compressor or decent mic-pre. it simply isnt logical.

im not saying that a competent user cant get acceptable quality out of lower priced gear. but considering that we're all using a $1000 "pro" application. on $3000 (or more) computers, it seems kind of dissjointed to skimp on our audio.

think about this:
digi002 rack $1200
rode nt2 mic $500
furman power unit $120
headphone amp $250
2 pair headphones $200
mic stand $150

for less than $2500 you can have a VO recording set up that will rival all but the best pro studio setups. and to me when you factor in the prices of the other pieces of our systems. its not exactly a ton of cash.

ok, everyone can yell at me now...

as i mentioned way earlier, you can either speak into your cameras mic, or (depending on your camera) plug a better mic into it. and just do an audio only capture in FCP - OR just do a full A/V capture then discard the video part.

aside from that, im afraid youre going to have to get some kind of analog input interface, whether it be a cheaper or more costly approach

Wayne, I think you have a point there, but at the same time, I think a lot of us in here are editors -- not necessarily sound designers. Most of us just need something to fill in the story, check the idea, make sure a piece of voice-over writing works for the purpose of the cut. We're not trying to get super-high quality audio, and shouldn't have to spend too much time on it. If we were to offer equipment of higher calibre, and take on some jobs that should be finished by sound designers (eg. finalized voice-over, sweetening), then I think we should charge more.

Of course, if you're talking about the editor as a self-contained post-production unit, as lower-end projects would do, then they get what they paid for. If a production's too cheap to have a separate sound designer (or too cheap to pay the editor an extra salary for sound mixing), then they deserve two-channel mono USB mixers/interfaces, $50 microphones, and no soundproofing. Hell, we get exploited enough without us volunteering for it.

very good point. i have to keep reminding myself that im not in LA and the industry there most likely behaves a bit differently than here in houston.

we dont get a lot of "just edit" jobs here. most of the better video shops have proper audio rooms in-house and even the better freelancers have to have fairly comprehensive toolsets (and skillsets) less they get relegated to non-pro jobs.

even though i have a digi002 in my mobile rig i do NOT have a proper sound room. so i will normally just build in an extra few hundred $bucks to a projects estimate and go sit and "play client" at a top-end pro room for a couple hours where i get to sit next to the engineer enjoying a coffeee and just coach the talent. this way i avoid all the logistic hassles and i walk out of the session with a cd full of high quality source VO tracks. for a measly $200 to $400 per job, i call that a STEAL!

then i can come back to my place and chop that up in protools/fcp to my hearts content...

I'm with Wayne G., here: I do a lot of voice overs in my work and my customers need to really *feel* what is being said.

My setup is cheaper than Wayne's recommendation, but I will defy you to hear any significant difference!

Rode NTK (gorgeous tube amp mic and perfect for VO; not sure what they cost in the U S, but I'd guess around $500). I'm a big believer in warm analogue somewhere in the digital sound-making process, and these mics really flatter voice, without distorting it

Digidesign Mbox (cleap, and definitely up to FCP's 48KHz 16bit best sound quality)?I'd get one second hand, about $150. These will take the variety of inputs of the DigiDesign 002 including XLR, for much less

Konig & Meyer "ProLine" mic stand ($60?): can't overestimate the importance of this part

and, yes, USB into FCP with this setup will be recognised as an input option in the Voice Over tool

Good cans (I use the BeyerDynamic DT250s; best bang for the buck in headphones, IMHO; I have others, too, but the BDs provide reasonable insulation from ambient noise)

A big airspace to record in! This is essential.

Tweak the sound using your proper reference speaker-sub setup (you must have this for cutting in FCP in any case, so I have not bidgeted for this here)

Total looks a bit more than a grand, or thereabouts.

cheers to all

Kit

(and i fully expect to get flamed for proposing this)

Maybe not here. Horton will skin the first person who tries it.

Spirited discussion, perhaps.

You left out a step. Yes, I understand all that equipment will sound just grand in a soundproof room, but, as has already been mentioned, most of us are working with what we got, and the fact that I have a very quiet room to record in was a lucky accident. The first owner of my had a kid that played drums.

That's exactly why I always suggest the absolute bottom of the line equipment that still does a reasonable job. And yes, we're up to four of those Lav mics in instruction use around the company.

Using one of those ($25) will tell you right away what *else* you have to change. There's nothing like blowing thousands on high end equipment to reproduce perfectly "One Life To Live" from the apartment downstairs.

Koz

Hey did you know that a sound proof room is not always the bestdue to the fact the it may accent certain dynamis in male voices , creating lo rolls that can only be heard during playback in speakers that incorporate a 8 inch wolfers or better that run at about 100w and better.
i dont use the sound proof room/booth. instead i use a partial encloser sorta like a cubical with a top. granted i am working from my basement and do not have much room niose anyway this option is a lil less costly. for about $75 duckets at home depot you can buy the wood. then if ya dont have a budget for sound proof panels to insulate, you can use thro cloths that are normally use at to protect furniture durring a move @ the Uhaul place you can get these for about $25 - $40 duckets, and one will do a hole wall and the roof.

but if all ya need is a mic then use the AT3035 ( $129 - 199 duckets )

and wayne i am rite with your proposal

yeah, i was in a clients place once and built a really nice sounding cave with 4 of those cloth covered steelcase 5x5' cubicle dividers. leaned 3 together for a front, left and right, then plopped the 4th on top. the talent had to be seated to fit inside, but it sounded fantastic.

i also once used those 4x8 sheets of rigid fiber/foam insulation from home depot with sheets of 2x4 auralex hot glued to the inside. the benefit of having each panel individually mobile proved very valuable.