using final cut pro as an online suite

g day

thanks for reading...just need feed back and information about building setting up an offline/online suite using final cut pro platform.

right now the market arena i am in uses inferno/henri as the online platform.

my question then: is final cut pro a doable plate for doing online to compete with inferno/henri suties..

here's the present work flow for the market arean i am in: shooting on film..

telecine (onelight).. offline session on an avid... do a full grade using offline cut list.. online sesion on a henri (option of inferno) ..doing 3d and graphic with maya, shakes..motion..


i want to save cost of travel and time..

can i make work flow as follow...
telecine (as tech or full grade rather than one light) to digibeta...offline using final cute.. colour correction/grade if needed...online using final cut..doing my 3d and graphic with maya, shakes..motion..


would like feedback

sk

Do you have a client looking over your shoulder? If the answer is yes, you may not be happy with the lack of RT performance in FCP. If you're less concerned about clients, and your workflow can absorb the time differance, then it may work for you. Just keep in mind what you're comparing. Can it work? Yes.
Will it be right for you? Only you can answer that.

This is less a technical question and more a workflow/client issue.

Mark

It will work SK but FCP can't compete with Inferno/Henri for Real Time. If RT isnt that big a deal to you, then FCP will be just fine.



Michael Horton
-------------------

yes there will be clients...
but as long as the work is done in a timely manner..
fcp wont be as fast as an inferno/henri.. but it will
work.. roto..composite..clean up on dirt.. etc..

sk

i think the market that i am going to be in.. rt would be nice.. but matters most is getting the online done... adding extra time to the bid for online session... what about fcp colour grading... are there plug ins ...

If you have clients in the edit....Purchase small toys, puzzles, do-dads to keep them mildly amused while you render. Pray they didn' t have their wedding video screwed up by someone using FCP.


Chet
Las Vegas

aaah wedding photos.. nah.. just ad agencies and their clients..... guess toys and latta machines...

so basically what i am here is that final cut can do the online but rather slow rendering time compare to inferno/flame... okay is better to have the person driving this online session.. an online artist rather than the editor... okay so are there ways to boost the rt.. procs...

SK wrote:

okay so are there ways
> to boost the rt.. procs...

No. Just keep buying the fastest machines and throw in a hefty array of drives.



Michael Horton
-------------------

SK wrote:

what about fcp
> colour grading... are there plug ins ...

Look at Final Touch by Silicon Color. It will do SD, HD and 2K color correction.

[www.siliconcolor.com]



Michael Horton
-------------------

"what about fcp colour grading... are there plug ins .."

yes, but a dedicated grading machine is better.
here's the one i know of, color finesse:
[www.synthetic-ap.com]

FCP CANT roto, you;d have to go outside for that.
(so that means no fast power windows in the grade)

FCP DOESNT have a dirt corrector like avid does.

i've got a feeling FCP isnt the tool for you.

nck

nck

thanks for the information
well i need to make fcp work for me..especially in the market i am going to be working in...

avid is too expensive.. plus no tech support
inferno/henri suite... cost to much to book the room .. plus need air fare get there ... that s why i need to make fcp work..

sorry i am not a fcp editor:
what do you mean dedicated grader...another machine with colour fineses
what do mean power windows..

outside for roto & dirt removal... mean using after effect or shakes...

thanks for your help

if the people you work with / for are appreciative of the savings in time / travel / money, then it might all work out.

there's no tech support with FCP, either, other that what you can find for yourself, virtually (here), or in the real world.

sorry for confusion re: dedicated grader, what i wrote was confusing.
Color Finesse is a plug in for FCP. that offers a lot more than hte built-in color corrector.

Nevertheless, a full on colour grading suite (Da Vinci, or whatever the flavour of the moment is) is a whole lot better.
partly because of the gear,
and partly because of the operator (no offence: these people sit there all day doing their CC thing. they're good at it!)

Power windows are areas that can be defined in a shot where different grades are applied.
These are ESSENTIAL in advertising, as the client of course want's their product to have just the colours they paid some colour advisor a million dollars for.
plus they want the grass in the background to be a certain shade of impossible green.
AND they want the talents shirt a certain shade, and their teeth to be perfectly white.
so all these areas get defined by the operator quickly defining an area, and giving that area a different grade.
not impossible in FCP, just drop that word "quickly"

same thing for roto work. no way to do that quickly in FCP.
after effects would have to better, as nothing could be worse :-)
there are a couple of dirt correction plug-ins for FCP around i think,
but when i saw this being done on avid (like 5 years ago!) it was super easy and fluid.
you want these things to be as transparent as possible when you have people sitting over your shoulder.

but like i say, if they appreciate that they are spending a lot less, they might be ok about it.
generally i think they;d rather spend the money, and be out of there.
(i heard they charge a percentage of the budget, so if they spend more they make more!)
but you know your market better than i.

cheers,
nick

<<<not impossible in FCP, just drop that word "quickly">>>

Pretty much. We keep multiple Flame/Inferno suites running because there isn't any other way to do this stuff in real time--especially the movie people. They run real time at 2K HiDef.

Ever see and SGI Octane 2 with little whisps of steam coming out?

Our Flame artists will have you starting your car in the parking lot to leave when other methods would have you sending out for lunch--and dinner.


The Miller Test was done on a Flame. Tim Miller was the Flame operator.

[www.kozco.com]

That was produced from a cold start in real time field by field with interpolation and motion blur. I think it took him about 20 minutes including the setup time.

It's a good thing I didn't have to pay for it, although the chocolate bill alone put a good dent in the bank.

Koz

i am getting the feeling that final cut is not a good for an online suite...
to be honest .. the market i am going to be in (VIETNAM)... having an inferno suite doesnt make sense... because of common black out that goes around the city.. and the cost of bringing the equipment and the hourly rate you can charge...

so the issue for final cut is more about rt

Well...you might want to talk with someone in Vietnam who is doing what you want to do and go from there. I suspect there are a few.



Michael Horton
-------------------

mike

just returned from there recently.. ..
and no one is doing it there.... they have cracked fcp software...but no one understands fcp... so
thats why am i asking the questions in order to setup the suite correctly...

To address the original post... sounds like you want an Avid DS ($145,000). You just expect waaaaay too much out of a $1000 editing package...I don't think you understand what FCP is. FCP suites will never compete with Flame / Inferno in a million years...

I use FCP / Aja IO for onlining for Broadcast air everyday (to a DigiBeta master)...but there's no client sitting behind me and I do ALL my grafix, compositing & color correction in After Effects / Photoshop / Illustrator / Cinema 4D...but I have to render everything.

I just realized - I want to be a Flame / Inferno operator.

FCP is my digitizer / Editor / output and that's all. IMHO, you shouldn't have to render anything in an NLE...but that's just a dream I have.

- Joey



When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

SK wrote:

> mike
>
> just returned from there recently.. ..
> and no one is doing it there.... they have cracked fcp
> software...but no one understands fcp... so
> thats why am i asking the questions in order to setup the suite
> correctly...

Thats pretty weird, not about the "cracked software," but no one doing this legit. I'd figure VietNam's emerging economy as a HUGE market. You will do well.



Michael Horton
-------------------

i would love to have an avid and inferno suite...along with fcp suite ... but the economics of bringing the equipment to vietnam(2x the actual cost of buying the equipment) and the return for the work doesnt add up.oh i have the same dream about not waiting on the render...

they have legit software.. but the guys editing dont really understand english and the art of editing...

sk