Racial Music is Old School

i just wanted to touch on this though i know somebody is gonna take it as a war conversation.

justin timberlake - r&b
eminem - raps
joss stone - soul
cristina agulara - does qiute a lot of colabs with rap and r&b artist

seal - pop
lenny kravits - rock
rhina - pop
mos def does a lot of work with groups like massive attack and funki porcini
jay zee - did an album with lincohn park

with all of these cross over artist we have why hasnt video/film caught up. editors always put the same ole fight song in every sports video when little john might be a better choice. Mc donalds always has soul music when the commercial is mostly black. white actors always get rock or pop.

now on the surface it looks like that this is because whites and blacks listen to these kinds of music more often but in actuality these old stereo types are out dated. younger whites are buying and listening to more hip-hop that half of the blacks. blacks are breaking gorund in music with a new influx of blk rock stars and fans.

it would seem to me that editors are a few years behind the times or too afraid of change. i just did a peace on our mayor ( white ) in the background i used "earth, wind and fire" and in the opening i used marvin gayes version of " the star spangled bannor. though he was kinda thrown at first after the 4 min peace was over he said," its different and that he wasn't really expecting that kind of music but he feels that it will give him a more earthy tone. then he asked if i could do one on the city council in the same style."

i also did a video for tk spikes formally of the buffalo bills. the peace was about his social life. most of his friends are also blk. i used some " nightmares on wax and zero7" he loved it.

there are to may carbon copy cookie cutter video being scored based on race. what if tom cruize in top gun had have been doing his air combat training while steve miller was in the back sing fly like an eagle. what if during the bank robbery scene in Dead Presidents would have had jimmy hendrix bold as love? would the movie be ruined?

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

I'm not sure what you're asking here - is it - why isn't there more music performed by African Americans in videos? It's always hard to understand you, J. You've got intersting things to say, but your spelling, punctuation and typing make a lot of people not bother trying to follow you.

If that *is* what you're saying, I don't know that it's true. I've personally used artists like Lenny Kravitz, Jimmy Hendrix, Earth, Wind and Fire, Gnarls Barkley, Stevie Wonder, Tracey Chapman, Aretha Franklin, Marvin Gaye and Michael Franti without even thinking about what colour they were or what country they came from until you mentioned it. I doubt that many editors would reject music based on the race of the artist, or even really care who that artist was, unless it was relevant to the pictures in some way.

Maybe what the issue is, is that a lot of higher-end editors are in their forties, and not exposed to much variety in music listening anymore, so they go for 'The Final Countdown' because that's what occurs to them when the moment to choose music arrives.

As for hiphop and rap - it's just too busy and generally aggressive to use under anything that involves voice of any kind. Also, any swearing usually invalidates a song for any kind of prime-time use.

I agree with Jude. I think the "racial discrimination" is in your head. The fact is, use hip-hop in, say, Their Eyes Were Watching God, and your film is sunk. It just doesn't fit. Similarly, jazz, opera, classical and soul are not the music that you'll hear floating in the holiday house of American Pie 2 -- you'll hear alternative rock, hip-hop, modern R&B, even smatterings of classic motown, but not Billie Holiday. I just helped my director partner (who is black) beef up some of the music in our last film; my musical approach is more rock-oriented. It didn't matter, he liked it just fine. And the fact is, the music for his film still needs to be black music, because it fits his characters, locales and themes. But we needed black music that was more complex than, say, a straight Beyoncé song. So we incorporated a wide range of influences.

Just pick up any recent soundtrack album and you'll hear predominantly hip-hop, emo, teenybop dance and alt-rock. There is no race thing. In fact, hip-hop in action movies has already become a cliché.

And is it me, or is "Fly Like an Eagle" far, far too literal a choice for Top Gun? The song has no energy -- late-period Steve Miller is practically easy-listening. Lyrics matter a hell of a lot less than the vibe, the feel, the sound of the music and the voice. That's why the ending of "Layla" works so well in GoodFellas. The sound of the piano and the slide guitars evokes the '70s, even though the "corpse parade" has nothing to do with the unrequited-love theme of the song. Just because a song is called "Fly Like an Eagle" doesn't mean it's right for a film about fighter jets. Unless, of course, you're talking about an easygoing "off you go" sequence like the helicopter sequence of Predator, before hell breaks loose.

It's true that many agency reps, clients etc. could stand to expand their musical tastes and libraries a bit. Music you love is very often not the right music for the film. And left-field choices can work wonders and elevate the film. But the foremost criterion still has to be whether it helps the scene. And most films have specificity of location, time, theme, genre. As much as I love Andrew Powell's composition for the main title of Ladyhawke as pure music, the electronic drum kit and electric guitars really do take you out of the world the film is trying to create.


www.derekmok.com

Quentin Tarantino makes good movies and no one hardly pay attention to nthe fact that it is his music that gives it the tone. kill bill i thought was great sound track. when the blonde was about to fight the asian the music choice was ground breaking. didnt take the movei out of context at all.

office space had a great sound track also. the music was a little risky but it worked.
i just get tire of the same ole; this is a romantic comedy so lets use alternative rock or this is a movie about black business men so lets use jazz theories. latinos do listen to salsa but a lot listen to rap and ragatone.

house and industrial music doesnt always fit sports but thats how they use it. they even set shoots up in anticipation of the stlye of music. they could very well make a 15% augmentation in shooting style and come out with a scene that is truely unforgetable. imagine 007 with the shaft them minus the voice. i think it would work. its almost like they music is pre determined before they really look at the scene to see if something else would fit.

there is a movie called " loving jazebelle " that has mostly blck actors but mostly rock and pop styled music. it is a great film and i think the music was perfect.

is music being choosen because it actually fits the particular scene or is it choosen because this is what you would typicly use? if the answer is the second half then i would say that you haven't actually tried to choose music for that seen. instead you have done what every body else is doing without any consideration for trying to be original. original is always better than status quo.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

> Quentin Tarantino makes good movies and no one hardly pay attention to nthe fact that it is
> his music that gives it the tone. kill bill i thought was great sound track. when the blonde
> was about to fight the asian the music choice was ground breaking. didnt take the movie out
> of context at all.

That's because Kill Bill is a lot like Natural Born Killers and practically every other Tarantino script -- its historical and geographical settings are non-specific and fictitious. Modern-day yakuza with three women in the lead? Schoolgirl with a spiked ball and chain, and samurai swords? David Carradine with Gordon Liu? Therefore, a pop-culture-pastiche soundtrack works just fine. You could have godawful Japanese rockabilly alongside Nancy Sinatra, RZA sonic collages and vintage Chinese kung-fu themes and they would fit. Try it on a Star Wars or Indiana Jones film, or American Beauty, or The Departed, or a Hong Kong John Woo film, and your soundscape would be utter chaos.

> imagine 007 with the shaft theme minus the voice.

You're joking...right? An urban, über-American, '70s soul-funk sound for an upper-class, British, non-time-specific character?


www.derekmok.com

i think youre really arguing the wrong situation. movies in general can break songs. old OR new. the chosen music is simply a current demographic choice or a selection by someone in charge. sometimes it challenges cultural norms, other times it doesnt.

dont judge major studio releases in this discussion, because its not always the creative/director whos doing it. very often its an effort to push xyz artist of the second. has nothing to do with race, but with a tracked, targeted demographic pattern. and they are ALL set in stone - UNTIL the next fad offsets the previous one.

the original music in this seen reminded me of ' pick up the pieces by average white band '. it was very funk.

here is my remix

The Remix

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

Sometimes the music is chosen to go against the grain deliberately, though. For example, speaking of 'Shaft' (the original) I once used that theme on a car show during a review of the latest Volvo.

Partly because the style of the show was very tongue in cheek, partly because the presenter .. uh... walks like he's on a horse all the time, and partly because Volvo's big push at the time was 'You wish you were a bloody Volvo driver'. It came up great.

On a different kind of show, under different circumstances, I might be in a situation to choose 'Four Seasons' or something classical for the exact same car. It all depends on circumstance, and often, the imagination and musical .. broadness.. of the editor, or director or producer or whatever.

Hate to admit it, too, but that Volvo was a GREAT drive. Third on my list of funnest cars to drive.

Oh - and another reaosn I chose it - it was covered by our copyright agreement, and it was sitting on my shelf.

I think that might play a large part in the kind of music that gets used, too. Lots of people only have access to limited resources.

I agree with you, Jeff. I think that editors aren't adventurous enought.

But Jude has an excellent point. She used the music that she had the rights to :-)

My biggest heartache as a filmmaker has been with music -- I can't get what I want.

This last trailer I posted (Butterflies in the Wind) I was lucky -- finally. I got the rights to use a piece I thought would be perfect for my trailer and it worked!

It would be really wonderful if we could use any music we wanted to. If you have the budget, then you can buy just about any music, I would imagine.

The first documentary feature I was asked to edit when I started out in Norway was a festival movie about Northern Norway. I used Jimmy Hendrix's "Black Magic Woman".

The movie opens with a dock in North Norway, midnight sun and a beautiful blond is walking on the wharf. It was unbelievable how that music fit.

The director of the movie told me years later that everybody knows who you are. They played that documentary in North Norway during the festival for decades.

The year I cut the documentary? 1971 or 72. LOL. I'm going to have to find a copy of that movie someday.

I've waited long enough :-)

And, those comments, Derek and Jude, they are very valuable. You're really agreeing with Jeff in many ways; editors do make some fabulous choices. But I don't think that they have the opportunity to try more ...

So, I agree also with Wayne about the demands of distributors, etc.

Still, it's very exciting to be able to try different pieces of music on scenes -- if only it were possible to exhibit movies more easily and share ....

I've been a filmmaker for a long time and the passion never dies. Good discussion ...

> The first documentary feature I was asked to edit when I started out in Norway was a festival
> movie about Northern Norway. I used Jimmy Hendrix's "Black Magic Woman".

"Black Magic Woman" would be either Santana or Fleetwood Mac. Unless there's an obscure Hendrix version I don't know about. Sure you asked for permission from the right people...?

"Oh, go ahead, use that music. We don't own it, but we'd be happy to accept payment for it!"

If the film is good enough, you can get tons of different music. Led Zeppelin is even harder to get than Elvis Presley, but they allowed "Misty Mountain Hop" and "The Rain Song" on Almost Famous.


www.derekmok.com

LOL. I meant Santana.

Good old Carlos Santana; I had him mixed up with Jimmy Hendrix.

The best two guitar players I ever heard.

I like Santana best.

at one time art imitated life now life imitates art. this put us editors in a position to sorta be a little more innovative.

normally who ever sets the trend makes the most thank you's:-))

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

thank you thank you thank you LOL

U did a video for tk spikes?
He's an E-A-G-L-E now!!
and yes, I'm a fanatical Iggle fan...
I give you props because you worked with a player that may help the Birds get another step closer to the big game.
but I'll have to read what you wrote again to find out what you were saying...

PEACE!!!!!

i didnt even know he was so popular. i thought he was an average player til i did the video. he has a lot of fans.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"