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Final Cut Pro X - still Pro

Posted by Alex4D 
Re: Final Cut Pro X - still Pro
May 03, 2011 06:49PM
Video input card makers may be motivated to implement their own input/output control capabilities.
If you look carefully at the FCPX screenshots, there's one with a clip called "vtr" and it's in a Smart bin with a couple of other imported files. Of course what that is requires some inference but it seems almost as if a hint was being dropped. Perhaps Matrox Vetura Record or Blackmagic Media Express with additional features maybe?
Re: Final Cut Pro X - still Pro
May 04, 2011 03:05AM
Sorry guys I really wanted to prod the hornets nest there and play devil's advocate...

But as Craig mentioned - the video input/output card manufactures like [www.blackmagic-design.com] and [www.aja.com] have their own recording and playback software and you have been able to record video and audio into Quicktime Pro for a number of years albeit without the bells and whistles of a dedicated capture app/option.

Talking of legacy tapes - I have a load of old tapes too and in my last permanent position we had a library of over 3000. Personally I think it would be mad to leave it out of FCPX if its not too much trouble/cost to implement as I always feel that being able to handle anything that a client brings to you is very important.

But don't you think Apple's move might push the dawdlers out of the DV realm and into the HD realm? Helping move the industry on a bit? Or are you all happy to just sit on the current tech and stagnate?

As long as there is market for tape, someone will produce an app for it. But alternatively (as many people have suggested) keep an old copy of FCP 7.

When I look at the Pro market in the UK from my perspective. The only time anything goes to tape for me now is HDCAM SR mastering for features or TV. Most if not all the channels require new content in HD not SD, so no need for Digibeta either.

Whereas advertising or short-form and more and more 1 hour shows are going via Hard Disk as ProRes HQ files to the broadcaster(s) as they are starting to move everything to tapeless. Hell even the last two movies I worked on went to be made into DCP as ProRes 4444 and not from the HDCAM SR master tapes!

People are saying FCPX is 'not Pro' due to lack of tape support; but tape is being dropped by the main Pro markets Corporate, Broadcast and Film (with the exception of legacy/archive which can be digitised via other means). What then is the basis for the claim?

Is it too soon? If yes - when would be a good time?


But conversely let's get my position clear: I'd rather have more options than less; on the off-chance I might need the facility. Rather than buzz round like a blue-assed fly trying to find a solution at the last minute when a client brings me an SP U-Matic tape with archive on...

...stranger things have happened and I like to be prepared!



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]
Re: Final Cut Pro X - still Pro
May 04, 2011 04:28AM
What if you have a project and you want to do a batch recapture?



www.strypesinpost.com
Re: Final Cut Pro X - still Pro
May 04, 2011 05:40AM
If Apple want metadata-based workflows to become more popular (preparing the way for more solutions to replace Unity setups at TV stations), it is likely that they'll want metadata to work well with all media.

That means that if you import an FCP 6-7 project into X and spend the time adding metadata tags to people, places, shots, takes and regions, it is unlikely that Apple would throw that work away with a batch recapture in an older version of FCP.

If an FCP X project is a Core Data database (expressed using AV Foundation), it is likely that if tape capture isn't built into X, there'll be another tool that will be able to add or change the database for those with tape-based content.

Batch recapturing doesn't apply to tapes alone...

Given the multi-format editing nature of FCP X, the digitising tool might also be able to 're-link' tapeless source data to projects that were converted using FCP 6 and 7. It makes sense that if you've used a H.264 or Red to ProRes 422 LT workflow in FCP 7, you could open the project in X to continue work after linking the timeline to source Red or H.264 data (if your computer can play back such media).

-

Talking of Core Data, maybe we'll be able to give external suppliers access to parts of our FCP X projects:
- Transcribers and translators given access to specific ranges within clips, to which they'll be able to add subtitling/close-captioning/alternate soundtracks
- Graders
- Visual effects
- Standards and practices

We might even be able to choose which elements of our project are backed up on iCloud!

Fun fact: If the Mac or iOS device is the dongle for Final Cut, then Apple loses nothing by allowing developers to create applications that have peer access to FCP X project databases ? Core Data databases can only be served by OS X and iOS devices. That means if there is a market for applications that can edit FCP X data using a 20th century old-style (Avid/Premiere/FCP 7 A-B roll tape decks) UI, then Apple will allow third parties to develop them. The more applications that can manipulate FCP X project databases, the more high-margin iMacs Apple will sell.

___________________________________________________
Alexandre Gollner,
Editor, Zone 2-North West, London

alex4d on twitter, facebook, .wordpress.com + .com
Re: Final Cut Pro X - still Pro
May 04, 2011 12:48PM
With FCP X, it seems they are implementing aspects of other pro aps like STP (audio fades), which I think is a good thing. Has there been any mention of updates to the other pro apps? Is there going to be a new Final Cut Suite?
Re: Final Cut Pro X - still Pro
May 04, 2011 12:52PM
Suites cannot be distributed through the App Store, so if they were planning one they would either have to release each app separately or deliver a suite through the traditional retail route.

My software:
Pro Maintenance Tools - Tools to keep Final Cut Studio, Final Cut Pro X, Avid Media Composer and Adobe Premiere Pro running smoothly and fix problems when they arise
Pro Media Tools - Edit QuickTime chapters and metadata, detect gamma shifts, edit markers, watch renders and more
More tools...
Re: Final Cut Pro X - still Pro
May 04, 2011 03:43PM
Ben wrote-
[Maybe it is time to get rid of the old magnetic ribbon?]

Sure,. but what do I do with two boxes filled with DV sources? That my producers (including me) want to be able to repurpose anytime? What about thousands of cutting rooms with stacks of Digital Betacam or SP?

Sorry, IMHO, wiping out Log and Capture is an juvenile idea.

- Loren

Today's FCP 7 keytip:
Nudge a Canvas layer by SUBpixels
with Command-Option with Arrow keys !

Your Final Cut Studio KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com
Re: Final Cut Pro X - still Pro
May 04, 2011 03:58PM
Quote

but what do I do with two boxes filled with DV sources?

Burn them on the funeral pyre of old tech and dance around it naked chanting the Apple mantras and waving your Thunderbolt stick furiously!


...or keep a copy of FCP 7 for log & capture.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]
Re: Final Cut Pro X - still Pro
May 04, 2011 04:06PM
This is a third party window. Both AjA and Black Magic are probably writing tape capture software as we speak.

All the best,

Tom
Re: Final Cut Pro X - still Pro
May 04, 2011 04:12PM
Quote

This is a third party window. Both AjA and Black Magic are probably writing tape capture software as we speak.

I think you missed my post earlier guys Blackmagic and AJA already make capture software which comes free with their cards and can be downloaded free if you have their old cards.


Blackmagic Media Express:

[www.blackmagic-design.com]

AJA VTR Xchange:

[www.aja.com]


But I agree Tom - if FCPX is missing tape I/O then expect more Third Party Tape I/O apps to appear.



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]
Re: Final Cut Pro X - still Pro
May 04, 2011 04:15PM
I did miss that. So I don't see the problem.

All the best,

Tom
Re: Final Cut Pro X - still Pro
May 04, 2011 04:44PM
I know nothing about software development, but why doesn't Apple just get the Log and Capture function out onto a separate, independent piece of software? (Like Compressor) I'd imagine the codes, interfaces, designs etc. are already in place, so why not leave it out there as an option?


www.derekmok.com
Re: Final Cut Pro X - still Pro
May 04, 2011 04:56PM
The problem is the code has to be entirely rewritten. It's about the oldest code in FCP and probably won't run on Lion. For uncompressed tape capture there are hardware solutions, for DV capture, there is the QT player.

All the best,

Tom
Re: Final Cut Pro X - still Pro
May 04, 2011 04:59PM
Next to that, there are the other pieces of code to make it work together so you can get stuff like batch recapture, media management, etc, that works with the log and capture tool.



www.strypesinpost.com
Re: Final Cut Pro X - still Pro
May 04, 2011 05:18PM
FCPX clearly isn't designed with online/offline workflows in mind. Rather than going through the trouble of getting it all to work properly, it's probably just easier to use an app that is designed for this type of workflow.

My software:
Pro Maintenance Tools - Tools to keep Final Cut Studio, Final Cut Pro X, Avid Media Composer and Adobe Premiere Pro running smoothly and fix problems when they arise
Pro Media Tools - Edit QuickTime chapters and metadata, detect gamma shifts, edit markers, watch renders and more
More tools...
Re: Final Cut Pro X - still Pro
May 04, 2011 05:19PM
Ben, you have been told about playing with your Thunderbolt stick in public. Stop already!
Re: Final Cut Pro X - still Pro
May 04, 2011 08:08PM
"FCPX clearly isn't designed with online/offline workflows in mind"

YET (i hope)

otherwise they really should drop the "P"

the very early FCP was also a bit of a closed-system.
Automatic Duck and XML helped change that,
and i hope there will be a similar evolution of FCPX.

relying on a 3rd party app to batch capture raises interesting issues.
simple capture prior to editing is not too difficult.
a batch re-capture of a complex edit is another thing.
how do you get that complex edit into FCP7? (or whatever)
how to deal with non-FCP7 effects, or even asset structures like the "group clips" or whatever they're called.

do you trim the used edits in FCP7 or FCPX?
how does FCPX re-connect with this re-captured media.
not via file name alone (like FCP), one would suspect.
it would have to be via Reel# & TC.
or better???

Philip has mentioned TC as antiquated, but whatever it is, you do need a system where by every single frame has some form of unique identifier,
and can be traced back to it's source.
the days of on-line / off-line are far from dead


nick
Re: Final Cut Pro X - still Pro
May 05, 2011 12:20AM
Although still very early days in terms of product maturity, Matrox too have their own standalone capture app for their I/O devices: Matrox Vetura Capture

[www.matrox.com]
Re: Final Cut Pro X - still Pro
May 05, 2011 01:58AM
A tape input workflow is a must.

Too many projects outlast tape formats, and updates. It's not uncommon in documentaries to work with every antiquated format under the sun and take 10 years to complete.

Sure, once FCP 7 loses compatibility, there will be secondary software for archiving off tape, but this is counterproductive to Apple's current methodology of incorporating those secondary features (syncing, media management, color correction) into the FCP umbrella.
Re: Final Cut Pro X - still Pro
May 05, 2011 03:26AM
Will we be able to have FCP 7 and X on the same system?
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