LiveType Bug Background Bug?

In version 1.2 when you change the Background color and opacity in the Project Properties, LT seems to get confused when it renders movies. When the background is unchanged (opacity at 0% and Render Background unchecked) the rendered movie has a clear background (you can see through to the desktop behind the text). But once you change the color and opacity, which you can see in the canvas, LT never seems to let you change the background for that color. I've tried checking & unchecking Render Background, setting opacity back to 0% but LT won't render a movie out with a transparent background once the background color & opacity has been altered.

Can you give us an exact step-by-step for this, because based on your description I cannot reproduce the problem.

All the best,

Tom

Here's a step-by-step (I just checked it again, it's still doing it):
1. Start-up LiveType and type in a word, just so you have a little text to view.
2. Save it.
3. Move the out put to the end of the media (so you're not rendering a lot of blank space)
4. Now, Render the movie: Option-Cmd-R (it'll ask you to save it under the same name with .mov).

Notice that behind the text in the rendered movie, the background is completely transparent. It's pure alpha, you can see your other windows through it. Good so far, now...

5. Go to Edit -> Project Properties and change the background opacity to 50% (basically, some number other than zero). Leave the gold color as is.
6. Render the movie again.

Notice you now have a black background. I'm not sure what this indicates. This seems correct, so far. (If you want, go back to Edit -> Project Properties again and check the Render Background box, leaving it the default gold color. Render again and now you have a golden background, semitransparent, which is also what you'd expect.) Next is the problem I'm describing:

7. Go back to Edit -> Project Properties and change the the opacity back to 0% and uncheck render background (if you have it checked). Now it is back to how it was when you first started the program and created a new project.
8. Render the movie once more.

Look! The background isn't transparent the way it was originally, even though the settings are the same as the first time you rendered it. The background is "black" rather than the completely transparent (see-through) way it was the first time. So, that's what seems like a bug to me.

"5. Go to Edit -> Project Properties and change the background opacity to 50% (basically, some number other than zero). Leave the gold color as is.
6. Render the movie again.

Notice you now have a black background."

I don't get a black background. Actually a black background would be correct as in LT the alpha channel using Animation is pre-multiplied with black. The real bug in LT is that it displays the rendered Animation movie without the black, just as a transparent hole. Not sure what this problem is, but I've reported it, though it doesn't seem to affect the application and is really only a cosmetic annoyance. The correct behavior is to render with a black background.

All the best,

Tom

Tom Wolsky wrote:

> The real bug in LT is that it displays the rendered
> Animation movie without the black, just
> as a transparent hole.

I was thinking it might be the other way around. At least it's consistently repeatable, which is always my concern with reporting what I think is a bug when it can turn out to be something unique to my set-up.

> Not sure what this problem is, but I've
> reported it, though it doesn't seem to affect the application
> and is really only a cosmetic annoyance. The correct behavior
> is to render with a black background.

How does one report a bug on LiveType? I looked everywhere on Apple.com and there's no feedback specific to this program.

It's part of the FCP suite of applications. You give feedback through the FCP feedback page, which you can access from the FCP web page, or directly from the Final Cut Pro menu.

All the best,

Tom

When you bring it into FCP the alpha is still there. The problem showed up on my system when I moved to quicktime 6.5 even before I went to LT 1.2.

Not a big deal though.

Jim,
Yes the alpha is still there so the bug is in the display. But when it happened the first time I thought the alpha channel had been removed and it wasn't until I (like you) brought it into FC that I realized it was still there.

Displaying black for an alpha channel is not a bug nor incorrect. Black also appears as the background in FCP. The alpha channel created by LT is premultiplied with black so it's important that the black be visible.

All the best,

Tom

Tom Wolsky wrote:

> Displaying black for an alpha channel is not a bug

Yes, I know. What I meant was (and keep in mind when I discovered this glitch I was using LT for the first time) that the rendered window first appears with the alpha channel completely translucent, which I actually thought was kind of cool. (I thought, "Wow, now THAT'S transparency! I can see through the window all the way to the Finder!) It was only when it changed to black that it (at first) SEEMED to loose the alpha channel 'cause all the transparency turned to black, however "correct" that may be. (And also that I could never get it back.)

I don't think I ever reported this interface bug as a problem with transparency, but I still think it causes confusion.

Also, black is not the only way transparency can be shown in FC or many other programs. You can have it be white or checkerboard. Although black is always going to look good in a movie when the alpha channel is being premultiplied.