Can I fit all this onto a DVD-R?

I'm making my first film into a DVD, but I need to keep it on one DVD-R. Can I fit this onto one DVD-R and any recommendations on compression?

1. 1 hour and 50 minute movie.

2. 1 hour and 50 minute alternate audio track - commentary.

3. 18 minute documentary.

4. 10 minutes total: alternate/deleted scenes and the trailer.

Thanks,

Heath

It can be done, you will have to have an average bitrate of about 3.5. Your audio will need to be encoded in A-Pack at 192 or less. Keep your menu very simple.

If your source material is great and you use 2 pass vbr you should be ok.

can I use a bitrate of 3.0, or is that too low? Do I compress just the video and do the audio seperate, or is that in the compressor?

THANKS!

heath

The best way to tell if a bitrate will work for you is to export about five minutes and encode that. Then watch it and see if you like it.

As far as the audio I always export it separately as "audio to aiff"

Then I just drop that file into both sides of apack. If you haven't used apack before:
Apack:Launch apack

Under audio tab
1. target system - leave as DVD video
2. audio coding mode - 2/0 (L,R)
3. data rate - 192 kbps
4. dialog normalization - change to -31 then press enter
5. bit stream mode - leave as complete main
6. drag your audio file exported from FCP under quicktime) to the left and right box, press ok at prompt

Under bitstream tab
leave everything as is

Under preprocessing tab
1. Compression - change to none
2. uncheck everything else you can

Finally press encode ( this all takes very little time )

The resulting file gets imported into DVD SP to use with your video file in your track.

Thanks, Marty. I get my audio back tomorrow (hopefully it's all perfect and ready to go) and start encoding tomorrow night.

heath

One thing I'm a little confused about is exporting from Final Cut Pro 3 for compression. Do I export my film as a Quicktime or a Final Cut Pro movie? And is it a reference FCP movie or not? (How do I make a reference FCP movie?)

Thanks a lot,

heath
www.mpsdigital.com

Hmmm,
Forgive me I thought you had FCP4 and DVDSP2. If you have FCP3 and don't have DVDsp2 then you do not have a VBR encoder.

The quicktime encoder at the required bitrate for this is...well it is worthless.

Tell me more about what you have to work with.

I always export a selfcontained movie with no recompression. That way the encoder does not have to hunt around for the bits and pieces of the video.

I have a 1.6 ghz G5 running FCP 3.0.4 and, yes, DVDSP 2 (I bought the G5 because my Powerbook G4 400 mhz). I'm going to attempt some tests tonight of 5 minute clips, so your advice will aid me.

I really appreciate the help.

heath
www.mpsdigital.com

Cool,
You should be good to go.

(I think I have G5 envy)

what about the FCP 3 export to an FCP movie (as a reference or not) or a QT movie?

Even though my G5 is the lowly one (with a couple G4 things), it still screams. YOWZA! In two years, when we wrap our next film, 9:04 AM, I'm gonna buy the highest-end one (dual 4 ghz is my theory) to edit the film (HD).

heath

I always export as an FCP movie self contained, not a reference. This preserves everything. Then I export the audio under quicktime as an aiff.
I encode the video with compressor and the audio with apack.

I used to use a reference file but every so often it creates a problem. I just got in the habit of not using a refence file. Mix down your audio before exporting anything.

Makes sense...To recap:

1. Export video as a self-contained FCP movie.

2. Mixdown audio and export as an AIFF.

Import, seperately, into DVDSP 2's compressor and (after testing to determine if I should go with a bitrate of 3.0 to 3.5) take care of the rest.

Any recommendations for the audio commentary? Should I just do the same or can I compress it in A.Pak more?

Thanks,

heath

Only video goes into compressor. All the audio tracks are separately encoded in apack. Apack is the best tool you have for audio compression.

Last questions:

1. How do I change my settings in Compressor (is it automatically done when I set the encoding preferences in DVDSP 2)?

2. Do I add chapter markers before or after I compress?

Thanks,

heath

In FCP4 I set the chapter markers prior to encoding. I encode in the stand alone compressor not inside DVD SP. In your applications folder I think you'll find an icon for compressor.

Gotcha. Thanks. I'll be working a little more before I encode (chapters).

Today, I was trying to figure out how to change the bitrates, etc. for the compressor, but I couldn't find the preferences menu. Can you point me in the right direction?

heath

I encoded a two hour thirty minute video using the preset for a two hour video. Since I used apack for the audio it worked. That should work for you as well. It comes out as 3.5 mbs and your upper limit is 3.66

This is a dumb question, but where's that preset at? Can I fumble around with it, bring it down to 3.0 if need be?

heath

Okay, I did the video first, using both mpeg2 fast encode 120 minutes and mpeg2 high quality 120 minutes. Fast ended up at 1.45 mb (from 1 gb of five minutes of video) and high quality ended up at 1.44 mb (go figure). It looks okay, but not great. I see a lot of artifacts, I guess. Like waves of color (in this case a black and white scene with gray "waves".

Can I go in and change the bit rates a bit? See what they say? Should I use the encoder in DVDSP2 since I can control the bit rates?

Thanks,

heath

I meant 124.5 and 124.4 mb.

heath

I tried 6 mbps and it still has artifacts (at that point, it's too large for the DVD if I include everything on there, audio, etc.). Maybe the artifacts I'm seeing aren't there, as I'm using the simulator in DVDSP 2 Basic...

Marty, honestly, how crappy will 3.5 look when going to DVD-R?

Thanks,

heath

ps-audio sounds GREAT and is averaging 6.7 mb per 5 minutes. Can I make the commentary smaller by going lower than 192?

If you are still getting artifacts at 6 there is something going wrong. It's possible to encode at 3.5 with no artifacts at all.

What is this video shot with? Is the source DV?

Another possibility is that what you are seeing won't show on a TV. Interlaced footage always looks better on a TV. Computer screens are different. You could take your test encoded segments and put them both on a DVD and include some short segment of higher encodes. See how they look in real life.

When space is tight you can break up the movie into segments based on motion, color, and patterns. If you have any talking heads you can generally get away with even lower bitrates saving higher rates for where you need it. Go ahead and experiment with the quictime encoder.

It really comes down to testing with your footage to see what you are happy with. It takes every DVD author some time fooling around with different encoders and rate settings to see what they like. And of course it is totally dependent on the source material.

It's a pretty ambitious project for your first one. If you have lots of effects you will probably not get this all onto one DVD-R as cleanly as you want.
What is the purpose of this project? Is it for release? It sounds kind of involved for a DVD-R. If you really need extra room you might consider putting your movie on one side of two sided recordable disc. Leaving the documentary and trailers for the other side. That will buy you nearly 1mbs for the movie side, around a 28% increase in available room.

Here's a source, I'm sure there are others. [www.meritline.com]

Shot on an XL-1; it's an indie film (www.mpsdigital.com and www.skyefalling.com). No effects or anything, so it shouldn't be a problem. Can I use an NTSC monitor while working on my DVD, like I can with FCP?

Yeah, it's ambitious, but I don't have $400 to pay someone else to do it...

Thanks,

heath

<<<Can I use an NTSC monitor while working on my DVD, like I can with FCP?>>>

I've never found a good way.

Too bad, but somehow, it makes sense. I got my audio back, so I'll be laying that in and doing more tests. I'll burn a DVD or two tonight and post my results up.

Thanks,

heath
[www.mpsdigital.com]

MovieNinja,

To modify the settings of a Preset in Compressor, open the Presets window and select "120 Min High Quality Encode."

Hit the "Duplicate Existing Preset" button (along upper right of Presets window -- looks like a folder with a shadow). This will create "MPEG-2 120min High Quality Encode-Copy." Select it, and open the Encoder tab. Under Quality, change your Average Bit Rate to 3.0 Mbps. That's it -- you've created your own MPEG-2 preset that you can select from the Batch window.

I've had amazing results as low as 3.2 Mbps. Haven't tried 3.0, but it's not much farther down!

Good luck,
-Jeff

Hey Marty,

Great summary of A.Pack encoding.

Just curious, you say:
Under preprocessing tab
2. uncheck everything else you can

I have heard two other opinions: Keep the checkboxes to their defaults (as per SP2 manual) and check all 4 boxes (as per Martin Sitter). Just wanted your two cents.

Of course you need to set Compression to None. Why oh why won't Apple change the doggone default setting...

Thanks,
-Jeff

Jeff,

I did 3.5 mbs and ended up with 1:50 minutes of video only compressed to 2.67 gb. Of course, before I even imported in the project, DVDSP2 was telling me it was at 4.6 gb. Hmm, whatever...;-)

heath

The reason that I say to uncheck every else is because if you don't on some sets it will make the audio fluctuate. It is trying to ramp up the audio to avoid jarring the speakers. Or so I've been told. But you can hear the audio levels move around with those boxes checked.

Best if we control the audio levels ourselves.