Confusion over G4 Compatibility

I've been following the threads on the forums and just to make sure everyone is clear, Motion on the G4 requires:

1. A MIRROR-DOOR G4
2. 867MHz or faster processor
3. An appropriate video card (like the ATI 9800 Pro)
4. 512MB RAM, 2GB HIGHLY recommended

It will NOT work on Quicksilver or older G4 systems, regardless of processor speed.

-PfA

...that's what I needed to hear from Apple.

That would make the G5 the largest dongle in the world.

What a BUMMER.

Thanx

I'll bet on top of EVERYTHING ELSE that you have had to endure this weekend - this is just another load of bricks to you.

So very sorry about you being in the middle of Charley! Yikes!

(Personally, I don't buy it - why would the dual mirrored G4 work when the Quicksilver NOT work?)

Wanna bet someone will find a way around it?

John,

This is definitely the cherry on my nightmare Sundae this weekend. I should have known that it was going to be a rough weekend when I woke up Friday morning:

Let me preface the next paragraph by saying that our ANIMALS (CATS, DOGS, BIRDS, etc.) are a barometer for major storms...you can tell by their behaviors that a major storm's coming. Judging by my cat's behavior, we were in for a big one...

Friday morning 7:30 AM (life is a script): I was up getting ready for work and my CD called me to tell me to stay home because the storm was coming and it was going to be a bad one. I went into the kitchen to make some coffee and found my 10 year old cat - DEAD, on my dining room table from an apparent heart attack. I had to explain this to my 6 year old son who woke up to my Wife's crying and now wants to know if we can keep the body.

To be continued...

Let me know if you find something out regarding the G4 Quicksilver (NON-MIRROR DOOR). I can't do another rig at this point, so I am out of the Motion loop until I get my G5 (won't be until the next generation, probably).

My apologies to the forum and Mike for not being able to follow through (yet)...but to Apple: I think this SUCKS that you have left so many (SLIGHTLY older) G4 Dual Proc users twisting in the wind (Hurricane, in my case). To force people to buy a new box just to run a $299 software...that's brutal, man...just brutal...

...it's such an AVID-like move.

I will check back from time to time to see how everyone ELSE is liking Motion.

Peace

- Joey

If it will work with an 867 with 512mgs of Ram, I think it should run fine on your system Joe.Afterrall its the graphics card then the amount of Ram and last in order of importance is the CUP speed. I don't think you're out of the loop.

Dave

Motion does in fact run on Quicksilver 867MHz machines and better!

Both, the Quicksilver and Mirror Drive Doors G4 machines have a 4x AGP bus - the only 4x AGP compatible graphics card Motion supports is the retail ATI 9800 Pro Mac Edition[1]. Worth noting, the retail 9800 Pro Mac Special Edition[2] requires an 8x AGP bus.

Currently, I am running Motion on a dual 1GHz Quicksilver packed with 1.5GB of RAM and the retail 9800 Pro Mac Edition card running to a 23" CinemaHD display - no problems at all.

Small Dog Electronics has the 9800 Pro Mac Edition for $329 USD[3] and for those with an ADC display, the required Apple DVI to ADC adaptor goes for $99 USD[4]. (no i am not affiliated with small dog in any conceivable manor).


[1] [www.ati.com]
[2] [www.ati.com]
[3] [www.smalldog.com]
[4] [www.smalldog.com]

Is that's means, the non-special version of 9800 pro mac retail edition is not G5 compatible ?

Can I re-use that graphic card later, when I have enough budget to get the G5 ?? or still need to pay the extra for custom build ???

Antonio Hui

jean-pierre,

You have the exact same set-up I do. You are saying that you are able to run Motion with no problems? Even the realtime playback???

...so why does Paul from Apple "make it clear" that Motion only runs on a MIRROR-DOOR G4? Maybe it was only TESTED on a MIRROR-DOOR G4???

Hey Mike,

Can we get anyone from the "Motion" development team in here that can answer these questions more accurately? This rollercoaster ride is makin' me nauseas (if ya know what I mean)

- Joe

jean-pierre

That is wonderful news! Thank you so much for letting us know that someone IS running Motion on a Quicksilver G4 with 4x AGP slot, successfully.

We can all sigh with great relief now!! WoooHOOOO!

I'll believe it when mine arrives, I install it and it works. Antonio had a valid question...can we transfer the 9800 Pro Mac Edition to a G5 or will we have to RE-BUY the "Special Edition"???

Joe,

The ATI Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition video card is 2x or 4x ONLY. Will not work in an 8x AGP slot.

Most likely, by the time the dual 3.0 Ghz MAC's come out in another year (we hope) there will be a bigger faster mutha to put inside the beast.

Paul from Apple.

What sayest you about this post further down the list?


""Currently, I am running Motion on a dual 1GHz Quicksilver packed with 1.5GB of RAM and the retail 9800 Pro Mac Edition card running to a 23" CinemaHD display - no problems at all.""

Mike said Paul was a FCP-only guy (?). I would LOOOOOVE to hear from an Apple "Motion" developer or someone who is closer to the software/machine set-ups!!!

- Joe

Maybe someone from the Motion team will stop by but to be honest it looks like all of you will be able to determine what works and what doesn't on your own. It seems some of you have the equipment or have ordered the equipment.

Often what you see on Apples web site and even ATI's web site is what has been qualified, not necessarily what works or doesn't.

I'll trust you guys.

And yes, Paul is the FCP PMM not from the Motion team.

mike

Greg Niles is the person you want to talk to. Greg has posted a few times over on the Creative Cow web site.

I find it very interesting that an Apple representative would post something like "It will not work on the Quicksilver" when another user here has it working on his Quicksilver 2002 dual 1.0 Ghz system??

From what I can tell, at the moment - only the ATI Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition ( the UNSpecial edition) will work in 2x and 4x AGP slot Macs.

I just don't know how far back it will go. I have a friend here in Nashville that has a sawtooth G4 (early-early) and has put a 1 Ghz upgrade processor in it and is going to try to run Motion on his box.

Well as much as we like to have the "official" word this is not Greg's job as he is the designer and as the designer probably not on the QA team. I'll ask him if he or someone over there can check in but don't hold your breath. It's roll out time for Motion and they are quite busy as you might expect.

The official word is on the Motion web site. Might be a bit confusing but it is the official word.

This thread is about "questioning" the official word. One cant rely on someone else to do our questioning. So it's up to John and others to see what works and what doesn't. Or we accept the official word.


mike

Well - here it is - straight from the Motion team's mouth :

Motion does indeed run on a Quicksilver G4 when combined with a Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition.

[www.ati.com]

Please note that the Quicksilver AGP slot does not supply sufficient power that this card requires. Here's a tech note from the ATI page :

RADEON® 9800 PRO MAC EDITION requires connection to your computer?s internal power supply for operation. ATI recommends a 300-Watt power supply or greater to ensure normal system operation where a number of other internal devices are installed.

The Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition has 1 DVI and 1 VGA port, but unfortunately no ADC port. This card is currently your only choice if you want to run Motion on a Quicksilver G4 or on a Dual Mirror Door G4. If you have an ADC monitor you will also need to purchase a DVI - ADC converter ($99 at the Apple Store).

[store.apple.com]

And to answer another question - please note that this card will not work in a G5 ! However, all G5's ever shipped did come with graphics cards that will run Motion.

Motion depends on the latest advances in graphics technology to achieve some of the effects and its incredible performance. Unfortunately this does mean limited choices for owners of older systems, but on the flip side it represents enormous potential to grow with the accelerating performance of current and future graphics cards, especially on a G5 with it's faster bus and memory.

Best regards,

Guido Hucking
Motion Engineering Manager

Hi Guido,

So that, any Express edition or cut down version in plan for the order system. You can see there still have thousands of people really want to taste the power of "Motion". On other hand, market share also the good support of any new product.

Anyway, thanks for you and your team to create this wonderful application.

Many Thanks.
Antonio Hui

Thanks Guido

Appreciate your time

Mike

The specs. for the motion program show that the ATI 9700 Pro (R300) works with the program. But when I try to install, a message says I don't have a qualified card. Any info for this problem, or incorrectly listed qualifier?

James Herring

"... all G5's ever shipped did come with graphics cards that will run Motion. ..."

The fact is, no matter which model of G5, we still need to pay the extra cost at us$300-350 for get back the same class of graphic card, the 9800xt.

The OpenGL card rule the performance of "Motion" mostly. Right ?

Last year, I get a 8500, than now, I need 9800 pro, and later, pay for the 9800xt....... !$!$

I don't have the 9800 pro yet, may the copy of "Motion" just store in my drawner for some months .... ?? Appear date??? Who knows

Antonio Hui

What are your other system parameters ? We have several Dual Mirror Door G4's running with the 9700 Pro and Motion runs fine on them.

Guido

Antonio Hui wrote:

>
> The fact is, no matter which model of G5, we still need to pay
> the extra cost at us$300-350 for get back the same class of
> graphic card, the 9800xt.
>

Antonio,

You may want to try Motion first on your G5 with the built-in cards, especially if you have budget concerns. These are powerful cards and Motion runs perfectly fine on them.

Best regards,

Guido

The main issue is budget concern.

I already ordered the motion from Hong Kong Apple's online store. Although, not arrive yet, but already foreseen there will be some compatible issue. The point is, I don't mind to pay the extra to get a good OpenGL card even more expensive than the 9800 serices.

Just like few years ago, I bought a expensive 3DLabs's graphic card on PC, it's still can be easily transfer and transfer from NT, 2000, to XP without headache.

You know, money is money, we earn each cents with our tear and blood. So that, as you said the 9800 only work for my current machine and without any future, I will think twice, or wait or even give-up this product.

However, I have a commitment to Michael, I will kept on to look after the "Motion"

I know that's our failure, you already done a good product for us.
Many Thanks again!
Antonio Hui

I posted in the Cafe and was directed here. Yes, motion is a good application. I test ran it in the local Mac store on their G5 but it had a few problems running at full speed. I do have a dual 1gig G4 quicksilver without the mirrored doors. The 9800 may be an answer for me but only a temporary fix. The real answer probably lies in the next generation G5 that can really handle 8gigs of RAM. I'm not sure the present generation can and if anyone can explain that it can I'll listen. The demo on the website for Motion was really done well. What machine were they using for that?
Good job Motion team!
RC

Current G5's can have up to 8GB of RAM, although Motion can only address 4GB of that, but the rest could be used for running the OS and other applications. I have 4.5GB ram in an original Dual 2ghz G5, and the 128MB ATI 9800, and feel that an even better graphics card could help, as could putting my media files on a RAID for speed of access.

Graeme

Wow! What a response from all concerned. Thanks Graeme, (I use your film effects filters) I needed to hear how much RAM Motion actually uses. I think I'll wait as I said for the next year to hear how Motion shakes out the bugs then I'm on to the G5 with as much RAM as needed but no more than can be used. I'll keep my eyes on this forum for sure!!
Thanks

RC

G4 867DP, MDD with Radeon 8500 gets rejected after running the installer. Probably would be super slow anyway.

The only graphics card that works in a G4 is the ATI Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition with 128 MB DDR.

Dave