HDV video observation

ok, as i mentioned earlier. i tested out both the sony z1 and jvc hd100 cameras this week. shot at1080i60 on the sony and 720p30 on the jvc. the one thing common to both cameras is that they dont handle pans well and especially not on even slighty complex backgrounds.

my test shots included pan shots of passing vehicles in a wooded park area and cyclists on a roadbike path in the same park.

i shot this delivery truck passing by and the logo on its side has this echo/jitter/vibration thing and of course the trees in the background are a jittery mess. same thing on the cyclists.

the odd thing is that when you stop the playhead the still image in the viewer/canvas looks fantastic! background and all - so the content is on the tape, there is just some hangup in the way it plays back...

i recently saw some shots done with the canon xl 1h as well and the same thing was happening there. ive heard various people mention that this is a "feature" of HDV.

i cant believe this is reality of things? i mean why have a video camera that doesnt record motion well? thats called a still camera.

I shot a lot of moving shots from a car with the Z1 and I didn't have any such results. In fact the playback is just great. I'm using Sony Digital Mastering tape. I don't know if that has something to do with it.

Thus my dislike for HDV. Nice that they are trying to make a low level HD camera, it is unfortunate that this compression isn't up to snuff.

But hey, even DVCPRO HD has it's issues. Shoot a nice solid blue sky and you see artifacts galore. Add a filter or CC, and they really pop out.

ok, this is what freaks me out. how is it that (withe the same camera) some people have this problem and others dont? could it be in the way its captured?

filmman, did you capture native through fcp or did you used HDVxDV or lumiere HD?

shane, what really confuses me is, like i mentioned above. if i park the playhead or scrub slowly though the clip, the image looks fantastic - background and all. but it gets jittery on full speed playback. which says to me that the recorded image is fine, but there is a playback issue...

and as far as tape spec goes, we are using miniDV tapes and not some miniHDV format that i havent heard of?

Ti must be that way the GOPs...group of pictures...plays back. What that really means, couldn't tell ya. I just know that the frames are made up of GOPs...

Wayne

as you know jitter on the playground even happens in film and is supposed to be avoided with low deep of field (I am talking progressive there) but if the logo on the followed truck is jitter: bad news

but what playback are you talking about, on a HD screen direct from camera ? or from Fcp (once captured), or in video Composit ?

what about once treated and rendered on some uncompressed timeline ? would't it bring the whole thing back ?

(if it was for myself that crapy format would NEVER pass my door but clients are buying the Z1 !)

One thing that is confusing and can cause bad footage is that the Z1 needs ALL settings to be handled in manual mode or the camera over rides what is set manually to try and give you a good image. Meaning you have to set the gain, f stop, white balance, etc, all manually. A very bizarre way to set things up but the way it works. There is a great DVD on using the Z1 or the FX 1 that covers why it does this and shows footage with the problems you are speaking about and how to avoid them. Go to www.handsondv.com if you want to get it.

The cameras have wierd little things that can cause bad ftg if you just go out and film and don't know about them.

Kevin

When we bought our Z1, we were told to use only one type of tape for the Z1, that being the Sony Digital Master tape. It's the PHDVM-63DM

It says in the Z1 manual that you can use MiniDV tapes for SDV, DVCAM tape for DVCAM, and HDV tape for HDV. I haven't used regular MiniDV tapes in the camera yet. I think I'll stick with the Digital Master tape from now on, because I had great results with. And I had an assignment the first day we bought the camera, so I just got it out of the box and shot it before I even read the manual. I'm lucky I got the results that I did. After hearing all this, I can't believe how lucky I was. I shot HD and the finished product looks great. I'm making copies on a Sony deck, at the highest quality setting.

Thanks for all the advice I've received in this forum.

> Go to www.handsondv.com if you want to get it.
>
> The cameras have wierd little things that can cause bad ftg if
> you just go out and film and don't know about them.
>
> Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Can you check the URL above. Safari come back with "server not found".

Thanks!

-Scott

Whoops!!!!
OK, you caught me. Too much wine on a Saturday.

www.handsonhdv.com

Forgot the "H".

Kevin

in France we drink wine every day, so it doesn't make any difference

HDV, being mPEG2 is very dependent on the precise nature of the footage being shot. That's how one person can see nasties, and the next person can't. And the nasties are designed to be perceptual in nature, as part of the compression, and some people can see them more easily than others. Finally, quality of HD monitoring plays an important part in the assessment of picture quality.

Graeme



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