Capturing Confusion- DVCAM vs HDD

Hello,

We have some 100 miniDV tapes of footage that we're ready to start digitising and cutting in FCP for a documentary. My partner and I are discussing how best to proceed. Our equipment, (without superfluous details) includes 2 Macs w FCP 4.5, some miniDV cameras.

We want to touch the master tapes as little as possible. So there are 2 plans of attack; is it better to make DVCAM clones as 'work tapes' for logging, digitising, etc- and then use the master tapes again to digitise the final edit choices? Or could we just as well digitise each entire tape- costing us about one play out per tape- and backup the capture hard drives? OR is there an even better approach?

What are good reasons/benefits to clone to DVCAM? My judgment is obscured by the cost of cloning to DVCAM (labour, equipment, media), introducing more tape to deal with, and what seems to be a detour to the same end (hard drives). (Nevermind that the masters must be used at least twice: for cloning, and again for the final..)

Also, a backup set of hard drives, rather than DVCAM tape, offers me some sense of security: manufacture warranties and Finder copies present an efficient way to recover from possible drive failure.

I've never heard of this DVCAM approach, and though unconvinced, hesitate to dismiss it outright in case I might be overlooking something. So, I/we will be very thankful for your answers on this question, as it is stalling production.

Thanks! dan

I see nothing wrong with logging and capturing from the source tapes, then capturing from them again when (and if) you capture again at higher quality. (capturing at DV quality from the start means only capturing the footage once) This is done all the time, and only RARELY does a tape take a hit by getting stuck in a machine. And really, wear and tear by playing the tapes twice? three times? Not really an issue.

Every single production I worked on...broadcast TV included...always captured from the source tapes. We never cloned them as it was not cost effective, and we never felt the need.

I still don't see the need. Only time I had an issue with dropout on tapes is on a tape that was 15 years old. But, it was 3/4", which is a bad format to begin with.

100 hours of dv25 footage will take up about 1.4TB of hard drive space, so I can understand the thought of wanting to digitize at a lower resolution and then online the finished edit. However by the time you make clones of the originals, with labor plus the cost of another 100 tapes you would be up for close to the same amount it would cost you to buy the hard drives.
I would just capture everything at DV quality and then store the master tapes in a cool dry place.

There's one benefit to cloning -- as a troubleshooting step to take out a tape with too many timecode breaks. But cloning 100 tapes is too paranoid even for me! You should put that money towards getting a brand-new, reliable deck and a good assistant editor, or several large external drives to backup all your media. Remember, cloned tapes are a cost down the drain (you don't want to reuse tapes for serious projects), while an external drive can last you for years and even be resold at the end of the project.

If you're gonna clone the tapes, at least do it yourself, FireWire to FireWire, and I'd also do that concurrent to logging and capturing. Then you're only out the cost of tapes, and if you have access to two decks (I would *not* use a camera for this), it's just a matter of you popping tapes in and out from time to time.

As Derek said - cloning tapes is an absolute must if you have loads of broken timecode.

What you could do is:

transfer 3x 60minute miniDV tapes to Large DVCAM 184min

Use SONY PDV-184N NON-CHIP DVCAM tapes


This would make a much more managable 34 tape source and would be more robust as far as long term storage.

MiniDV tape stock in general are not as good quality as DVCAM stock and I have experienced drop out on even the highest quality Sony, Panasonic & JVC miniDV tapes. But (touch wood) never on the SONY PDV DVCAM range.

And again I agree with Mr Mok (he's usually right!)

Yes it will cost you and most people will say you're mad but if you can't shake the fear and want to be sure - then back them up and log the DVCAM timecodes as you transfer them. In FCP by typing in manually the in/out TC in Log & Capture.

And as he said: make sure you use Firewire to Firewire Transfer and your digital dub will be an exact replica albeit spread over more area of better quality tape...

Good luck - let us know how it turns out!


Ben



Post Edited (01-16-06 09:34)



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Hi everyone!

Sorry about the delay in response, and thanks for your advice- it's helped us choose to go the HDD route for the editing process.

But this discussion raises questions re: longterm back-up strategies. Is it common practise to backup all the raw footage? Tape clones? Cloning 3 tapes to one DVCAM 184 min seems convenient, but that would serve to preserve the footage only- TC links to existing projects or catalogs wouldn't be accurate anymore.

Hmm... something to dig into the phorum archives for...

Best,db

Hey no problem - I would only bother to transfer to 184 minute tapes BEFORE you log and capture - otherwise as you say the TC will not be the same.

At the end of the day a PDV DVCAM tape is far more robust than a MiniDV tape (even the highest quality ones) so for long term storage or multiple reuse the DVCAM route will stand up to the wear and tear much better.

Having said that - over the last 7 years I have only had about 15 to 20 MiniDV tapes exhibit problems out of 1000s so the margin is small and depends on the brand of tape, the recording mechanism, the playback mechanism and a whole host of storage factors like humidity, heat, etc.

Best thing to do is read the storage conditions that the manufacturer recommends.

DVCAM should be stored at 59°F to 77°F and a humidity of 40%RH to 60%RH - this is much more important for tapes that are going to be stored for 10 years or more.

Keep all tapes away from magnetic sources - for example your TV or Monitor!!!

Also dust can be a problem - so if for instance you live in a dusty city - get a good air tight box to store them in. Don't smoke around your tapes or edit suite either - the tar from the tobacco clings to everything!

I could go on but most of this info with be on the tape boxes/labels or you can find out more on the respective websites.

Good luck with everything


Ben





For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]