Field dominance for text

Is there an issue with type & feild dominance in FCP 5 ?


After our Agency upgraded from 4.5 to 5, we are experiencing an awful problem.

In a nut shell: Sequence setting" Field dominance set to lower (as should be) video looks great. But ANY type generated in fcp or imported from PhotoShop (as tiff or layered) looks chunky, broken-up and ghostly.

If I switch the Field dominance to "NONE" the type looks great. Sharp and fine. BUT the video then starts to break-up and ghost.

Don't remember having this problem in 4.5

Denny, meet Aggie:

[www.lafcpug.org]

No idea what's happening in either case.

Koz

I saw some weirdness with text with a drop shadow. Do you have a drop shadow on these graphics?



Kevin Monahan
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You looking at this onyour comp screen or monitor?


Derek

Looking at a final product. NTSC Burned to DVD, etc.

Trashed prefs didn't work

Running FCP 5.0.1

It is "bitmapping anything that is "still" Type, images etc.

A real problom. Was NOT and issue in ver. 4.5

You know AgMan, you should be checking your monitor AS you work, not after you've burned another DVD "coaster".

In LiveType, you really have to make sure that your prefs are set to Lower Field for field dominance.

I just did some graphics for a producer/editor that already had used the legacy text generator and scrolling text. Also had some PS files, and all looked great. NO flicker problems whatsoever.

Denny, don't mess with field order. All video and graphics should have the same field order as your video. Leave the sequence set to Lower Field first.

There is probably another problem you are experiencing. I could not reproduce your problem.

Always, ALWAYS be checking your titles and graphics on a production monitor AS you work. If you are not monitoring footage as you work, you'll be able to troubleshoot problems and see graphics as they really are.

Example: Scrolling Text flickers like mad on the Canvas but looks awesome on the video monitor. If you did not use a video monitor, can you see how anyone might get confused by this.

This single issue has been a problem since FCP 1 since most newbies refuse to monitor video properly. FCP is more than an app, you have to think of it as a system, you know, like Avid Media Composer. ;-)



Kevin Monahan
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I have been working in FCP since 1.2.

I have never had any problem what-so-ever like this.
Only after upgrading fro 4.5 to 5.0. I'm at 5.0.4 now.

I always look at my 20" NTSC monitor. Stuff looks great.

If I hook up a TV direct (via the dsr-45) bypassing the NTSC, burn a DVD or create a QT file to view on the computer monitor, with the field Dom set to lower as should be, Type (generated from ANY source) and any still images, look very bad. (exporting dv ntsc 48khz)
Ghosting, chunky, pickleated.

Again if the Field Dom is set at none type and graphics look as good as anything I?ve seen in my 7 years using FCP, but video looks bad.


Any thoughts?

Aggie
vitrorobertson.com
san diego

<<<I have been working in FCP since 1.2.>>>

And also remember, he isn't the only one who's having what appears to be exactly the same bewildering problem. That's what rang bells for me. It's like Aggie and Denny got together behind the 7-Eleven and rehersed what they were going to write.

You didn't do that, did you?


Just because this is an ongoing problem, do y'all have matching program versions?

Tiger, QT7 and FCP5

--OR--

Panther, QT6, and FCP4x.

Those are the only two trouble-free combinations (really early versions don't count). Any other collection can lead to troubles. Also, you can't have "upgraded" between Panther and Tiger. You have to do a fresh install between those two.

You both violated one or more of those rules, right?

Koz

No. But are there other reported instances of problems with text rendering in FCP
because someone "upgraded" from Panther to Tiger ?

<<<are there other reported instances >>>

No, but nobody's ruled it out, either, and we know a lot of weird stuff happens if you don't manage those upgrades correctly. Who would have guessed that the wrong QuickTime version would cause your camcorder to vanish?

I'd love to get a third person with the same problem and figure out what's common. Tomorrow.....

Koz

I'm not doing well. Y'all can help out.

Find somebody else, a third person who's having the same troubles. I couldn't find anybody on several different forum searches. It doesn't mean they're not there, it just means I didn't use the right juju to find them.

Koz

Agman,
Sorry for assuming you were not monitoring properly. It's usually the first thing I suspect since many, many users do not do so.

Try the text without a drop shadow. How does it look then? I suspect that the drop shadow may be introducing this anomaly.



Kevin Monahan
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I never used a drop shadow, but since you mention it, along with the ghosting, chunkiness and pixcelation, let's say it looks like it also has an unwanted drop shadow.

YES - the problem is that bad.

So far a lot of great suggestions, But no solution.

Not that this is any of all you great people's problem, but it's becoming a job threatening issue with a boss who doesn't care where or what the problem is, but (very rightfully so) wants it fixed NOW.

Thanks
Aggie
vitrorobertson.com
san diego

Ag,
It's tough because it could be a lot of things. It could be something wrong with FCP, it could be pilot error. We definitely have been where you are, so try to remain cool. I know, I know...it's not easy.

The things I always ask folks:

In the Sequence > Render menus are ALL the qualities checked (including FULL). That is a fool proof way to make sure that you are rendering anything that needs to be rendered.

In Sequence>Settings>Video Processing tab, how are you processing your renders? Are you rendering in High Precision YUV or Standard 8 Bit? Is your motion filtering quality set to best, fastest or normal? Try High Precision>Normal if you are not already set up that way. Best has problems with some users.

In Sequence Settings>Render Control Tab, are all boxes checked and all pull down menus set to 100%?

In your RT Pop Up menu on the Timeline, are you set to:
Safe RT?
Full Quality?
Full Frame Rate?

Above all: do not set the sequence's field dominance to anything but lower. That's definitely not the issue and will only make things worse. A DV sequence must be lower field first.

After trying all these things, let us know what happens.

One suggestion for your boss: instead of getting angry with you, ask him to spring for Apple Tech Support. Not cheap, but if they can't fix it, you and your boss will at least have piece of mind.

Unfortunately, you can't 100% rely on an internet discussion board to be your sole source of troubleshooting and tech support. That's just crazy-talk. My take is that a serious boss that has any knowledge of this business will realize the importance and value of a support contract. Especially when you've got a weird issue that no one else can reproduce crops up.



Kevin Monahan
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Thanks for the help and reassurance:


>
> In the Sequence > Render menus are ALL the qualities checked (including
> FULL). That is a fool proof way to make sure that you are rendering
> anything that needs to be rendered.


Yes, "Render All' Even Full are ALL checked.




>
> In Sequence>Settings>Video Processing tab, how are you processing your
> renders? Are you rendering in High Precision YUV or Standard 8 Bit? Is
> your motion filtering quality set to best, fastest or normal? Try High
> Precision>Normal if you are not already set up that way. Best has problems
> with some users.

"Render all YUV in high-precision" is checked

And I read somewhere (pertaining to this issue) that motion filtering is best set @ fastest linear
But I will check "Normal"


>
> In Sequence Settings>Render Control Tab, are all boxes checked and all
> pull down menus set to 100%?

Yes




>
> In your RT Pop Up menu on the Timeline, are you set to:
> Safe RT?
> Full Quality?
> Full Frame Rate?

Yes X3




>
> Above all: do not set the sequence's field dominance to anything but
> lower. That's definitely not the issue and will only make things worse. A
> DV sequence must be lower field first.

Of Course




>
> After trying all these things, let us know what happens.

Unfortunately, the same results.

So I know I have to do three things:
? Upgrade from Panther to Tiger
? Cross-grade from fcp 5.0.4 to 5.1.
? Then, strongly suggest Apple Tech Support, but...


>
> One suggestion for your boss: instead of getting angry with you, ask him <HER>
> to spring for Apple Tech Support. Not cheap, but if they can't fix it, you
> and your boss will at least have piece of mind.

I think the boss is as frustrated as I am. Apple tech support ($799) was discussed, but as a last resort. Seeing how after 7 years I've had ONLY one major problem. This. You can see as business, how you would question that expense.
>
> Unfortunately, you can't 100% rely on an internet discussion board to be
> your sole source of troubleshooting and tech support. That's just
> crazy-talk. My take is that a serious boss that has any knowledge of this
> business will realize the importance and value of a support contract.
> Especially when you've got a weird issue that no one else can reproduce
> crops up.
>

I agree It's the time that sends me to the boards, but above that the very knowledgably people and their willing to help.... Like yourself
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Sent using Phorum software version 3.4.8a [phorum.org]

I'm almost out of suggestions. I got a couple in my back pocket, though!

Have you tried placing the graphics on whole, even numbers? That should be checked.

Are you placing text with the wireframes or with the point controls? You should move text with the point controls.

Have you tried using Boris Title 3D instead of Text?

Are you scaling the text or graphics in the Motion tab at all?

What's really frustrating is that the rendering quality has vastly improved in version 5. In FCP 4.5, scaling was absolutely horrendous - even in 10 bit.



Kevin Monahan
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KOZ -

Here's your third - direct from Mr. Monahan's Forum:

The only difference here is I exclusively use Boris 3-D

I wonder if she knows she was doing nothing wrong AND if she fixed it.

Kevin, anyway of contacting her?
(btw - for some reason i couldn't reister to your form)



Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:00 am

Post subject: Problems with pixelated text in FCP 5.04
Hi,
I?m a video artist. To edit my films I use Final Cut Studio (FCP 5.04). When I need text in my films, such as titles, end credits, and whatever sub-titling necessary, I use the Text tool that is found under Text in the Video Generators tab in Effects (Effects > Video Generators > Text > Text). But my problem is, all texts made this way come out severely pixilated, looking like the letters were created using Lego. I have tried several fonts and several type sizes. I mostly use plain lettering (not bold or italics).

I assume I?m doing something wrong, but I can?t figure out what. I could make my texts in Photoshop and import the images into the projects I?m doing, but for ease I prefer to just to use the tools found in FCP. Any suggestions out there?

Eva

Dual 2.5, Final Cut Studio, Photoshop.

Alright Kevin - all sins forgiven. Let's start over.
We need to know if she is seeing this on her NTSC monitor.

Guys,
I can't contact this person as she is not registered on my board. She's probably long gone, unfortunately.

Agman, you are registered. There is a weird bug with that board that sometimes requires you to sign in 2x. Try that.

Sorry I have no new suggestions. I've got bigger issues with my 2nd PowerBook going down yesterday. :-(



Kevin Monahan
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Thanks for all your help Guys.

Our IT gut comes back on Monday.

We're gonna do a complete clean re-install to 5.1.1

And maybe up to OS 10.4

Thanks Again - And I will for sure let you all know the outcome.